tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post2388650830407058720..comments2024-01-14T15:52:43.644-05:00Comments on The Thirteenth Depository - A Wheel of Time Blog: The Fires of Heaven Read Through #7 Where's Charlie Mesaana?Dominichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17610557134981958201noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-34946821026509595362010-09-14T13:49:50.888-04:002010-09-14T13:49:50.888-04:00Felaana is on screen in New Spring, where she is d...Felaana is on screen in New Spring, where she is described as having a raspy voice. Doubt it's her.Bcopvfnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-38974393133830919972010-03-01T14:22:02.093-05:002010-03-01T14:22:02.093-05:00i always suspected Felaana of being Mesaana; she i...i always suspected Felaana of being Mesaana; she is mentioned wearing a bronze dress, she was guarding Leane after she and Egwene were captured and is decribed as having a rough voice, as though she is ill. This is shortly after Mesaana was punished by Shaidar Haran; probably rough from screaming. Also, an Aes Sedai would have access to Healiong to deal with illness. LAter on, when Moridin summons Graendal, Demandred and Mesaana she is described as looknig pale and ill. Is she on your list too?Mollynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-38852786882210439142009-10-29T21:34:20.349-04:002009-10-29T21:34:20.349-04:00You forget that we have had several Elaida POVs to...You forget that we have had several Elaida POVs to prove that she's... Elaida.Dominichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17610557134981958201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-11511181166746202542009-10-29T21:14:53.656-04:002009-10-29T21:14:53.656-04:00I don't know if you've read the new book, ...I don't know if you've read the new book, and I'm not going to read all the posts (as I'm a bit of a slow reader and don't have a lot of spare time anyway), but if you've read chapter 2 of Gathering Storm it should be quite obvious who (spoiler in link) <a href="http://www.okapian.com/2009/10/time-has-come.html" rel="nofollow">Mesaana</a> is.<br /><br />Also, not really the right post for this, but Sanderson is far less subtle than Jordan....okapianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15397160175914293649noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-7766901744032872632009-08-20T20:15:50.505-04:002009-08-20T20:15:50.505-04:00Theodrin now...
As we've discussed before, I ...Theodrin now...<br /><br />As we've discussed before, I think she's too old to interest Mesaana, too set in the Tower's ways too (she was about to be raised). <br /><br />I also think if Mesaana set up an indoctrination system among the novices and/or accepted, it's far more likely to have begun in the fall after she's dealt with training Alviarin to be the sort of agent she needed etc. I think before Theodrin left is too early.<br /><br />There's also the fact I don't really see anything dubious about Theodrin, really.<br /><br />A far more likely candidate to have fallen, or soon to fall, into Mesaana's lap is Nicola. All the themes and motifs surrounding Nicola seems to point that way. I would not be surprised Mesaana gets caught involving herself with Nicola much the same way as everyone else so far as got in trouble for approaching that woman and Areina. Nicola is... very disloyal to people helping her. Always. There's a 'child' even Mesaana may not find any way to control!!<br /><br />I just can't brush off the impression Nicola will be somehow involved in the Egwene vs. Mesaana story line. One way or another.<br /><br />I'm also half-convinced we will discover someone has arranged for Nicola to learn Egwene's plans for the harbour, and convince her she could sell that info against entering the Tower, with Areina hired there too. The very fact Areina was hired, when the Tower rather seeks to isolate novices from their old life, is most fishy. Nicola came there with a bargain to offer, I'm pretty sure.Dominichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17610557134981958201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-43055778770965979682009-08-20T19:56:32.749-04:002009-08-20T19:56:32.749-04:00As for Demandred, I do indeed believe he got invol...As for Demandred, I do indeed believe he got involved with the Children, and possibly with Masema. I'm less sure about that. <br /><br />My feeling about Masema is that Lanfear is the one who drove him crazy using his dreams, and her intent was to have him build an army of fanatics for Rand. <br /><br />OTOH, there's the matter that Masema got involved with Suroth, and the matter that Masema declared war on the WC. Both suggest that, indeed, he has a connection to either Demandred or Semirhage. He may have been recuperated, however. I should also point out I'm convinced Masema isn't a DF. He's a fanatic for the light, a modern form of Mordeth's evil, however Forsaken may or not have manipulated him. Old friend, old enemy, as Aginor pointed out. It's a common trend that such fanatics are good pawns for the Shadow to use, if only to turn them to destroying their fellow lightsiders. <br /><br />But I do not think Demandred's interest in the WC would have much to do with the Aes Sedai and their anti-AS bias. I think he used Asunawa to wreck the organization enough that the Seanchan would easily take them over. It sounds probable he expected to see the more fanatical join up the Seanchan's crusade, but by now they're a drop in the ocean, really. <br /><br />His other reason to use the WK, if he did, may have been to limit Sammael's expansion plans. <br /><br />The way I see Demandred, I believe he spent the least amount of time and efforts as possible on any given action. I think he prefers to remain above the mêlée and keeps his freedom and time to gain the wide view, to have time to observe a bit of everything. <br /><br />I do think he did set up Taim (I actually believe Semirhage was ordered to turn him, Demandred taught him war and Mesaana taught him indoctrination and how to mount and organize the BT) but I think he moved on rapidly. <br /><br />My theory is that Demandred busied himself following Rand from afar, finding pawns among the new followers Rand was making. I think Weiramon may be one such, for instance. He probably has a few Aiel DF too. A small clue is how pissed off Demandred was about Rand getting an Aiel following, like LTT presumably had. I see this as a clue Demandred is focussed on infiltrating Rand's followers, turning his followers against him, preparing betrayals.<br /><br />I'd say between Semirhage and Mesaana, Demandred probably considers the Aes Sedai are taken care of, though he might have given punctual help to either women on occasion. I'M still pretty sure he's the one who made Taim totally paranoid about Rand's safety - in fact I suspect Demandred did that shortly after he knew Rand had been captured. He didn't order Taim to find him, he made him paranoid about anything happening to Rand., knowing it would drive Taim to ensure everythign was fine, and to discover he had vanished... I believe Mesaana suspects this is what happened to the AS who were bringing Rand to the Tower. The trio are allies, but not the sort of allies who trust each other very far. I'm sure they act against each other whenever they are sure they won't get caught - like when Mesaana included Semirhage and Demandred among the people Alviarin must not obey.Dominichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17610557134981958201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-56666497254548515942009-08-20T19:34:58.615-04:002009-08-20T19:34:58.615-04:00This is a perfect reasonning for the Black Ajah, a...This is a perfect reasonning for the Black Ajah, and no doubt the motive why Mesaana has avoided teaching them anything, but Traveling to Alviarin, with a serious warning not to pass it on.<br /><br />However, would indoctrinated novices be a treat to Mesana? I don't know. To an extent, she must be confident in her methods of indoctrination, so she may err on the side of arrogance this way.<br /><br />It's probable the novices wouldn't even know what she looks like or where she is. She could perfectly meet them as Danelle or an Accepted, say, leave the room and reappear as The Great Mistress. She can have rules too, forbid them to embrace saidar in her presence or they are immediately punished harshly, and threatened with bigger punishment if they try ever again. <br /><br />Somewhere, Mesaana would have to draw the line. Either you mount a network of younglings, or you don't. I doubt Mesaana wasn't in contact with far more dangerous 'children' back in the War of Shadow. The risk that some of them develop enough backbone to attack her, and develop motives to attack her, is way smaller than if she was teaching Black Sisters.<br /><br />Taim is doing the same thing with his faction, incidentally. Either he risks creating soldiers who are a threat to him, or he doesn't and end up with a bunch of useless underlings who don't know much more than the average Asha'man.<br /><br />We'll see. I sure doubt Mesaana woudl teach anything to the novices she had no purpose to give them. Her teaching may be very uneven, with only a few of the more reliable ones knowing lethal stuff because in her plan it's what she needs them to do, the others confined to spying weaves etc. Those knowing weapons may not know reversing, those taught only spying tricks etc. No doubt she forbids passing on their knowledge to others - they may not even know who else is in the select club as a Child and who isn't, and as she's done with Alviarin, she has her tricks to convince her pawns she's unpredictable and they can never know what she knows and doesn't know about their doings and wherabouts. If she could achieve this with the Head of the BA, I have no trouble imagining what Mesaana could achieve with impressionable young minds. Her 'children' would probably revere her - the last thing on their minds might be to turn against her.<br /><br />It all depends on the effectiveness of Mesaana's indoctrination methods, and how much she trusts them, and her skills.Dominichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17610557134981958201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-40399877251508440892009-08-20T19:04:04.524-04:002009-08-20T19:04:04.524-04:00Regarding Demandred, why couldn't he also be u...Regarding Demandred, why couldn't he also be using some major hates of Aes Sedai: the Whitecloaks and also Masema? <br /><br />I also think that Mesaana tampered with Theodrin when she was Accepted, but that this is now wearing off, due to Mesaana recovering from being forcibly pulled into line.<br /><br />The trouble with teaching powerful weaves or techniques, is that it requires much trust they won't be used against you. I just can't see Mesaana trusting even devoted followers to this extent. Especially teaching them inverted or worse still reversed weaves!<br /><br /><br /><br />Incidentally, I'm reading "Books on Fire" for ideas on what Mesaana-like people have done in the past.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.com