tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post2517015441870290118..comments2024-01-14T15:52:43.644-05:00Comments on The Thirteenth Depository - A Wheel of Time Blog: Towers Of Midnight Prologue: Scenes 5 and 6Dominichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17610557134981958201noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-91774824085022608942010-10-25T12:03:56.894-04:002010-10-25T12:03:56.894-04:00Taim was most likely trained and set up initially ...Taim was most likely trained and set up initially by Ishamael. We also don't have much information on how or why Logain claimed to be the Dragon. There is a very good chance that Logain was duped initially, and that Taim was a willing participant (and darkfriend) from the get go. I think Taim has been used and manipulated (even rescued from AS) by various Forsaken through-out the series. Like all dark friends he has been made certain grand promises, but he seemed to back off and reluctantly follow Rand until Crossroads of Twilight. This was probably under the direction of "Dashiva". In CoT, our black-ops Forsaken blows his cover when he attacks Rand in Cairhien. Taim seems to be on his own again at this point, but just a few chapter later, Ishamael returns as Moridin, and we don't really see Taim in a semi-positive light ever again at this point. I think he is tied to Moridin's apron strings. He is a tool and nothing more, though a very influential and dangerous one.Jack O' Shadowsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-34881048124998495582010-10-19T07:06:06.479-04:002010-10-19T07:06:06.479-04:00Laynie: It's at the end of KOD in the epilogue...Laynie: It's at the end of KOD in the epilogue. His palace isn't entirely in red and black but it is prominent. I have thought for a long time that Taim is Moridin and have posted a theory about it at Theory Corner here on the blog.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-76060517941413198432010-10-17T14:32:09.293-04:002010-10-17T14:32:09.293-04:00I just re-read the ENTIRE series while waiting for...I just re-read the ENTIRE series while waiting for ToM, and I realized that it's said (I can't remember in which book) that Mazrim Taim's palace in the black tower is decorated in black and red. I thought that it might be significant (maybe Mazrim Taim could even be Moridin?)Laynienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-61542003248709013652010-10-11T06:45:18.895-04:002010-10-11T06:45:18.895-04:00P Authier: lots of people have speculated that Fai...P Authier: lots of people have speculated that Fain will have a Gollum-like role. He might, but if so RJ would have put in a twist to it as he always does.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-14512263466857497892010-10-10T20:32:36.803-04:002010-10-10T20:32:36.803-04:00I have been thinking more and more on the final sh...I have been thinking more and more on the final showdown between Rand and Fain. I am thinking it will be similar to what happened with Gollum at the end of LOTR but instead of Rand refusing to toss in the ring it will be more like Fain and the DO being stuck in an endless loop inside the DO's prison.Philiphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07560207716142565438noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-66326802597067960222010-10-08T22:42:14.403-04:002010-10-08T22:42:14.403-04:00Till now I was assuming the three who must become ...Till now I was assuming the three who must become one include Lews Therin (along with Rand and probably Moridin). Now that Lews has been assimilated/subsumed/whatever I was shifting towards Luc/Slayer as a possible replacement, but this new info leads me to believe that Fain might be more likely to be one of the three....and HIS blood on the rocks might fulfil the prophecy. Crazy? Probably :)<br /><br />~lakesideyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-24387032667339730792010-10-07T07:29:23.707-04:002010-10-07T07:29:23.707-04:00Anonymous: Yes, I too like the Ordeith/wormwood re...Anonymous: Yes, I too like the Ordeith/wormwood reference to Revelation. Although I wondered how or if "the star called wormwood would fall into the sea."<br /><br />Your idea of Behemoth is an excellent one. I was thinking of Loki because he leads a heap of jotunn (trolls) to Ragnarok just as Fain seems to be gathering undead Trollocs. <br /><br />But Behemoth is just as appropriate in a different way. And my eye did catch the unexpected name Leviathan and wonder what it portended.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-20172619222166558272010-10-06T09:34:59.633-04:002010-10-06T09:34:59.633-04:00I really would dislike Fain chosing a new name. He...I really would dislike Fain chosing a new name. He took the name Ordeith before and I thought always, that it was a good name (especially linked with the link between wormwood and revelation and then coming the last battle etc).<br /><br />So maybe he has now so completely changed that he needs a new name.<br />If we're going to think about names from mythology, maybe it's Behemoth.<br /><br />Behemoth means "monster" what certainly is beyond humanity and it's like Fain a chimera of two.<br /><br />In the Apocrypha it's said that Behemoth and it's counterpart Leviathan were send to torture humanity (in a way like the DO and the Shadar Logoth evil). Leviathan on the other hand is linked to the great serpent (it's a great serpent itself) and one theory is, that the DO is the great serpent (so I don't say it's true, I just say it's a possibility to build up some speculation). <br />It's also said taht Leviathan lives on the ground of an ocean, while Behemoth rules the desert.<br />Also Fain spoke about a Leviathan in the Aryth Ocean (certainly not the Do), so maybe that's kind of a little hint - and the blight is kind of a desert, too.<br /><br />In the Talmud it's told that at the end of Harmagedon Behemoth will fight Leviathan and both will then be slain by the "Righteous" - like Fain wants to fight the DO and Rand (or if you want the Creator) has to fight both.<br /><br />I'm a bit curious if ever will be revealed what exactly was the evil, Mordeth discovered - if I remember correctly, Brandon said that it was more than just the evil of humanity etc.<br />I doubt it a little bit that we'll find out because there is no evidence that Fain ever had a connection to something further than Shadar Logoth - so maybe, even if he remembered how to "meet" this evil (if that's in a way possible - physical or whatever), I doubt he would, because as Mordeth it led him to being bond to Shadar Logoth.<br />Fain seems more kind of an amalgamation without further connections now.<br /><br />DonnieAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-69704061639307379742010-10-05T16:15:38.108-04:002010-10-05T16:15:38.108-04:00The Wind Rose: I've been trying to think of an...The Wind Rose: I've been trying to think of another figure who led monstrous creatures to the battle for the end of the world. No luck yet.<br /><br />I would hope that <i>no</i> dog would be like Fain! Such an animal would be like a Darkhound! :D<br /><br />The extra Red-and-Black figure was unexpected, but it works. It will be interesting to see where this symbolism goes.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-17371639917871634752010-10-05T09:48:22.114-04:002010-10-05T09:48:22.114-04:00Fain is a nasty piece of work, I am interested to ...Fain is a nasty piece of work, I am interested to see what his new name will be. (I do hope it isn't Loki as I had a wonderful black lab I named Loki - and he was nothing like Fain!;)<br />So another trio - for Red & Black - Moridin, Rand and Fain.<br />Thanks as always for your reviews Linda!thewindrosenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-1334872948418733342010-10-05T06:19:03.382-04:002010-10-05T06:19:03.382-04:00Tankspill: I am going to do Chapter 1 either late ...Tankspill: I am going to do Chapter 1 either late this week or early next week.<br /><br />I was going to say that I don't think Fain is copying the prophecy deliberately, but perhaps he is anticipating Rand's red blood on black that he will see.<br /><br />Lauren: I agree that it's deliberately vague. Your suggestions are all good possibilities.<br /><br />I think he hates the DO too much to take the same name. He will take the name of a 'wild card' god like Loki, I think. Both Fain and his opposite number Mat have similarities with Loki.<br /><br />Prashant: I agree with suggestions 1 and 3. I think that Evanellein has too much regular contact with other Aes Sedai for Mesaana to assume her identity. A friendless Aes Sedai would be much easier as an alias.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-69752460627681643162010-10-05T06:10:54.106-04:002010-10-05T06:10:54.106-04:00Anonymous: After checking out this problem I find ...Anonymous: After checking out this problem I find that RSS Feeds aren't affected by the jump-breaks I use to hide spoilers. So no spoilers tag is going to work.<br /><br />From now on I'll do the discussion articles with spoilers a different way - an announcement post with a link to the spoiler post. Just as I do with updated essays.<br /><br />And yes, if lurkers don't speak up, I don't know what they're unhappy about. :)<br /><br />Nickel: That is a most interesting idea!<br /><br />Jack: I think that some other readers have suggested that Fain will replace the Dark One. I've also seen it suggested that one of the Forsaken becomes the new Dark One.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-85485928513329243312010-10-05T03:13:57.737-04:002010-10-05T03:13:57.737-04:00My CONCLUSIONS FROM wot PL COMMENT- * sETEL aNAN I...My CONCLUSIONS FROM wot PL COMMENT- * sETEL aNAN INN KEEPER FROM EBU DAR TRAVELLING WITH MAT IS BURNED OUT aes sedai Martine Janata while studying ter'angreal vanished from tower 25 yrs ago<br />* Mesana forsaken was in tower as Evannelin<br />* Arangar male forsaken in female body is Blathamel killed in first book<br /><br />by- PrashantAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-62831143440725581492010-10-04T18:15:31.491-04:002010-10-04T18:15:31.491-04:00FWIW - Google Reader could be your test platform; ...FWIW - Google Reader could be your test platform; that's the specific one that wasn't stopping at your spoiler link.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-48893216677160955912010-10-04T18:14:23.590-04:002010-10-04T18:14:23.590-04:00Oh, don't worry TOO much about it. I probably...Oh, don't worry TOO much about it. I probably sounded snarkier than I intended to be. I just wanted to make sure you knew the spoiler link wasn't working under that circumstance... and figured if I told you now, you'd have time to work it out before ToM is released.<br /><br />At any rate, I'm glad someone finally spoke up. We lurkers tend to be too silent at times. ^_^Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-68858359161319807572010-10-04T16:11:05.555-04:002010-10-04T16:11:05.555-04:00Anonymous: My apologies. so sorry to have inadvert...Anonymous: My apologies. so sorry to have inadvertently spoiled the book for you.<br /><br />I have been using this method for over a year and no one has mentioned this problem before.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-82794404711064477442010-10-04T11:51:34.532-04:002010-10-04T11:51:34.532-04:00Good stuff as always.
I think it was intentionall...Good stuff as always.<br /><br />I think it was intentionally vague as to why Fain was cutting himself. Did he doe it because he was trying to attract Shadowspawn like worms and Trollocs to him so that he could kill and/or use them? Did he do it because he just liked it? Was cutting himself with the SL blade somehow giving him his powers? Was it just because he was mad?<br /><br />Also, I personally think the "new name" that he will take on will be "Shai'tan."Lauren (Kip Mylo)https://www.blogger.com/profile/10734697630811718701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-9549229974263765142010-10-04T10:43:37.663-04:002010-10-04T10:43:37.663-04:00When I read Fain's POV about Red on Black, I w...When I read Fain's POV about Red on Black, I wasn't thinking so much that he had become a part of that prophecy so much that he was allowing that prophecy to influence him. <br /><br />Anyway, thanks for these recaps, are you going to review Chapter 1?TankSpillhttp://atreacherousmemory.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-29352089221053824982010-10-04T10:37:25.753-04:002010-10-04T10:37:25.753-04:00Perhaps the Dark One will be pulled into the patte...Perhaps the Dark One will be pulled into the pattern and destroyed at TG, while Fain will slip (or be forced) completly out of the pattern and be imprisioned by the Creator (or by the One Power) losing the remainder of his being and left as an immense power of evil and hate (especially toward the Dragon) writhing, boiling, and growing to become the Dark One of the Ages to come. Just a thought, prompted by Fain's new-found "freedom" from the Pattern.Jack O' Shadowsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-81253744028767715562010-10-04T08:04:27.459-04:002010-10-04T08:04:27.459-04:00Nice post, as always!
I thought that Fain's b...Nice post, as always!<br /><br />I thought that Fain's blood might be the basis of the fog/mashadar that's following him, he cuts himself and the blood turns into fog.<br /><br />NickelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-27356461106109940162010-10-04T07:59:38.601-04:002010-10-04T07:59:38.601-04:00I love you guys. But your spoilers? Not actually...I love you guys. But your spoilers? Not actually hidden in RSS feeds. Sad day.<br /><br />Seriously, it would be awesome if you could look up the technique for trimming the part of a post that shows up in the RSS readers. If you apply that tag (or whatever) right after the 'click here to expand the rest of this post' link, you will be warmly thanked. ^_^Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com