tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post7417433248771266044..comments2024-01-14T15:52:43.644-05:00Comments on The Thirteenth Depository - A Wheel of Time Blog: Our Reviews of The Gathering StormDominichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17610557134981958201noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-1106531581055321152009-11-14T14:58:38.232-05:002009-11-14T14:58:38.232-05:00I loved the mat chapters... esp his Talmanes inte...I loved the mat chapters... esp his Talmanes interactions I think that chapter gave you a feel that the band of red hand was like rather then...<br /><br />Yes Lord mat, No lord Mat<br /><br />...Can I to go back to my grandmother now...<br /><br />Ball-busting at it's finest it show they will let me know when he's being a fool and only a friend can serve a fresh bowl of shut up.<br /><br />You can see why he misses the hand <br />I am sure they are funner to hang out with then most of the cast.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-17127512900802685002009-11-10T20:56:44.403-05:002009-11-10T20:56:44.403-05:00Minor characters could have been given more attent...Minor characters could have been given more attention?<br /><br />Isn't that what the last 4-5 books were for? :PVincent Trevanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14183605207858993392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-7049762321353337752009-11-09T10:11:47.210-05:002009-11-09T10:11:47.210-05:00Excellent review. You ought to post it to Mr. Sand...Excellent review. You ought to post it to Mr. Sanderson. This is the best possible feedback he could possibly get.Erik Wetterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05486936976868113399noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-50697236309752425382009-11-08T16:13:59.532-05:002009-11-08T16:13:59.532-05:00From the SLC Signing as recorded at Theoryland it ...From the SLC Signing as recorded at <a href="http://www.theoryland.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2566" rel="nofollow">Theoryland</a> it looks like there is indeed going to be more on the Grendal situation.<br /><br />Question: There is a character in the book that appears to die on page 574...<br /><br />Answer: ~reads page~…there is a woman that actually dies here…(couldn't decipher for certain if this was a statement or a moving question/comment)<br /><br />Question: Did this character actually die?<br /><br />Answer: Let’s go on record with this, I am not going to say until after Towers of Midnight, but I will…they are looking for a “toast” comment, and I am not going to give the “toast” comment yet. The scene that I’m talking about, there will be things related to it in the next book, so I don’t want to say yet. Corner me after Towers of Midnight and I will give you a definitive answer, but Towers of Midnight may in itself give a definitive answer.SteelBlaiddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01233479838726084794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-74090289170757354632009-11-07T21:42:47.169-05:002009-11-07T21:42:47.169-05:00I just finished listening to the TGS audiobook, th...I just finished listening to the TGS audiobook, the first time I've listened to an audiobook in the series <i>before</i> reading the print version. I think it may have been a good thing in this case, since while I had an idea in the back of my mind that some details seemed off, I wasn't able to go back to a previous chapter or book to check, and just had to let it wash over me. From that perspective I found it to be a very satisfying installment in the series, and a much more seamless transition from RJ to Brandon than I expected. My only real complaint was with the Mat POV sections. Brandon seems to be treating him too much as a "funny character" rather than as a character who is funny, and it was kind of jarring to me. Looking forward to Towers of Midnight, and lots of reading at the Thirteenth Depository in the meantime.dogshouse2020https://www.blogger.com/profile/11906906187725731666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-89468033422847379602009-11-07T15:07:05.827-05:002009-11-07T15:07:05.827-05:00"Details, details... I don't really care ..."Details, details... I don't really care on reread, but they were terribly distracting on first read. 95% of a scene is right, and what distracts you is the 5% that is wrong. *shrugs* There's no avoiding that, I think."<br /><br />Yep, except on that first read they "glare" at you. I don't know about you but they are sort of like a lost filling, you are continually focusing on it to the detriment of everything else. I haven't done my re-read yet, I've been too busy writing quizzes (that now may not be used ... :shakefist: ) working, working, and working. Thankfully I have tomorrow off and will be taking Monday off. <br /><br />Old(it will be nice when things calm down)Saltold salthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16203073460077230506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-36751491133156802412009-11-07T14:56:32.947-05:002009-11-07T14:56:32.947-05:00Exactly Peter. Even Siuan showed her some measure...Exactly Peter. Even Siuan showed her some measure of respect. She's definitely an upper servant, and she is given responsabilities to supervise novices. No way this woman would be expected, and probably not even allowed, to do any menial work herself. She's no scullion. <br /><br />I'll have a question for Brandon concerning those errors, but I'll explain to you in the email with the questions.<br /><br />I notice a lot more on my second and third read, of course. Errors, but also that Brandon put a lot more details than I felt he had the first time around. I was too distracted by the action and plot development to notice much of the details, I guess. He's done an even better job than I first thought. <br /><br />Most of the errors are on the funny side. Dorlan gave Brandon a few problems. It has 15 houses. Brandon called it variously a village and a city. It's worse because a city man like Gawyn calls it a city. <br /><br />Then, there's the mystery that Gawyn reaches Egwene's camp from the southwest after two days of riding from Dorlan on his own horse, while Dorlan is on the eastern bank. Jordan has set it all up, but Brandon missed it. In COT, gawyn learned about a very small village of fishermen five days' walk (in snow) from Dorlan, down the river, where one of the fishermen agreed to carry the two Sisters back to TV in the night, to avoid notice by Bryne's sentries in the bridge towns. That's fairly obvious this was the way Gawyn would remember and use to cross the Erinin. Silly to think he would have found a boat or barge big enough to carry his horse too, and avoid Bryne's men's notice. <br /><br />Another funny string of mistakes are in chapter 20: Joline's Blaeric and Fen have completely vanished and no one seems to care! Joline doesn't ask for horses for them, Mat tells her she'll need men to take care of her horses if she leaves etc. He even assigns three redarms to escort her later. If Blaeric and Fen have gone on a mission somewhere (I don't think so, I think BS simply missed their presence), Mat should at least have made some cutting remark about Joline asking for soldiers after she's sent her warders away.<br /><br />Another mistake is that in the chapter where Tuon gives an audience to Beslan and co., she implies that Selucia was her Voice and now the position of Truthspeaker was be added to it, and in her first public audience since her return, she announce it. <br /><br />The problem is that Selucia was never Tuon's Voice. She was her chief-dresser. The positions of Voice and Truthspeaker were both filled by Anath. <br /><br />Of course, Tuon could have named Selucia her Voice as soon as she learned about Anath so she could even speak to people not of the High Blood, but this should have been mentionned as such.<br /><br />Details, details... I don't really care on reread, but they were terribly distracting on first read. 95% of a scene is right, and what distracts you is the 5% that is wrong. *shrugs* There's no avoiding that, I think.Dominichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17610557134981958201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-61600057278833460632009-11-07T14:21:45.039-05:002009-11-07T14:21:45.039-05:00"I've wondered where the "spotless, ..."I've wondered where the "spotless, never touching anything and never using her brand new spoon unless she forgot herself" Laras had gone too!"<br /><br />Exactly! Especially since she's the BIG BOSS, and in the environment of "executive privilege" she wouldn't go anywhere near a pot. Not even to lift a clean one off a rack.<br /><br />"The funniest was that it ended in the late afternoon and Laras was scrubbing pots instead of supervising the preparation of dinner, all the more since Elaida had a special dinner party with Sitters about an hour later!"<br /><br />I think it was so jarring for me because I used to be an executive chef, both at a large teaching hospital and at a small prestigious local college. One of my biggest concerns at both places was special affairs. They always required much personal supervision and attention to detail. In addition the onliest time I ever scrubbed pots was when the pot washer quit. (becaus of this pot washers get treated very well by chefs) And that was in a much more liberal labor environment than Laras was in.old salthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16203073460077230506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-86979717003295892692009-11-07T14:03:31.872-05:002009-11-07T14:03:31.872-05:00"That whole scene with Egwene in the kitchen ..."That whole scene with Egwene in the kitchen for instance was greatly compromised by Laras scrubbing pots."<br /><br />I've wondered where the "spotless, never touching anything and never using her brand new spoon unless she forgot herself" Laras had gone too!<br /><br />The funniest was that it ended in the late afternoon and Laras was scrubbing pots instead of supervising the preparation of dinner, all the more since Elaida had a special dinner party with Sitters about an hour later!Dominichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17610557134981958201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-9485679936351646482009-11-07T13:56:02.542-05:002009-11-07T13:56:02.542-05:00I make plenty of use of dictionaries and grammar M...I make plenty of use of dictionaries and grammar Merrill, and thank you so much for calling me lazy for all the hours I invest in writing and editing this stuff in a second language and making fun of me for misusing a word or missing a subtlelty in the way similar words are used in French or English.<br /><br />If you're not happy, go read something else.Dominichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17610557134981958201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-49365076529686388732009-11-07T13:44:23.347-05:002009-11-07T13:44:23.347-05:00Great review, guys.
Lije everyone else here, des...Great review, guys. <br /><br />Lije everyone else here, despite the small niggling errors, I ended up feeling only great relief and thankfulness that Brandon did such a great job with the book. My hopes for the series, and the place it will hold in the genre, have not been dashed.<br /><br />On to Towers of Midnight.<br /><br />Fionwe1987bookrazyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04499739437432944962noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-12304605848406174082009-11-07T11:31:35.269-05:002009-11-07T11:31:35.269-05:00Wow, that was pretty damn funny. The only excuse I...Wow, that was pretty damn funny. The only excuse I can offer is, here in Bangkok, it's late Saturday night. *ahem* (as he slinks off red-faced...)Merrillnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-44132525154989846092009-11-07T11:18:48.462-05:002009-11-07T11:18:48.462-05:00I enjoy and appreciate your writing, Dominic, but ...I enjoy and appreciate your writing, Dominic, but please take the craft seriously and use a good dictionary when you read. If you even feel a twinge of uncertainty over a word's definition from its contextual setting, don't be lazy. LOOK IT UP. It's part of the due diligence you must pay.<br /><br />http://www.google.com/search?q=invidious&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=Merrillnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-62256607940857384382009-11-07T08:35:41.922-05:002009-11-07T08:35:41.922-05:00Most excellent job you two. I am glad I didn't...Most excellent job you two. I am glad I didn't have to do a review. I don't do well at them and this "installment" of WoT was more difficult than most. I higly commend your dedication and effort and skill. <br /><br />And Dom, let me add my voice to yours about maybe spending more time in the final editing process of ToM to catch more of the niggling errors. Some of them were quite disconcerting. That whole scene with Egwene in the kitchen for instance was greatly compromised by Laras scrubbing pots. Laras, as Mistress of the Kitchens, would never scrub pots. More time would have eliminated such disconcerting errors.<br /><br />Old(and I agree that 'youse guys' would be good choices to help with that)Saltold salthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16203073460077230506noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-37102248974925229002009-11-07T00:17:30.838-05:002009-11-07T00:17:30.838-05:00There is an important difference between the enlig...There is an important difference between the enlightenment of the Buddha and the enlightenment of Rand. <br /><br />Hindu and Buddhist thought center on the idea that this life is and illusion or dream and that salvation comes by casting off attachments and becoming free from the cycle of death and rebirth.(See <a href="http://www.gaianxaos.com/maya.htm" rel="nofollow">this essay on <i>maya</i>, or illusion</a>)<br /><br />In Rand's case he is tasked with preserving the cycle because attachment, i.e. the opportunity to <i>LOVE</i> others, is the whole point. It is the dark one and the Forsaken that, because they <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/1_cor/13/1-4,8,13#1" rel="nofollow">"have not charity"</a>, desire to stop the cycle. not just for them selves but for everyone.<br /><br />I think its indicative of this theme that the principle champions of the light are in or forming marriages of equals(Rand/EMA, Mat /Tuon, Perrin/Faile, Suian/Gareth, Egwene/Gawyn, Rurarc/Amys/Lian, etc.) while the servants of the shadow are either deliberately single or in very unequal relation ships (as an example consider Verin's relationship with Thomas contrasted with Elza and her DF Warder).<br /><br />On a completely different tack, I think that the flatness of our experience of the culture of Arad Doman is a side effect of the fact that Rand doesn't care anymore and every one else is hyper-focused on him.<br /><br /><a href="http://kingofthenerds.wordpress.com/2009/11/03/sa-souvraya-niende-misain-ye-identity-and-the-gathering-storm/" rel="nofollow">An examination of identity as a theme in tGS.</a>SteelBlaiddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01233479838726084794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-59035423679194361382009-11-06T14:45:02.604-05:002009-11-06T14:45:02.604-05:00" Veins of Gold felt more Brandon Sanderson t..." Veins of Gold felt more Brandon Sanderson than RJ to me, personally."<br /><br />The execution might (or not) be Brandon's, but I'm convinced he had very specific notes about this sequence from RJ at the very least. The whole sequence, from the Tam scene to the epiphany on DM, fulfills too much RJ's symbolism and too well for any of this to have been devised from scratch by Brandon, IMHO.<br /><br />"Maybe you guys should be on the editing board the next time around so that little inconsistencies won't be overlooked like they seem to have been in this version."<br /><br />We're not bad at this, but this isn't our speciality either. Bob Klutz is a real master at this. <br /><br />I think they could use a group of fans to help point the mistakes and inconsistencies to Maria, though, and if they asked I'd certainly accept, but I would not go and offer it to them myself. It may be very complex to implement, under the very tight schedule they're working on. Just going through those reading reports and double-checking in the notes and the series to make sure <i>we</i> are right it's a mistake would increase her workload massively. <br /><br />Maria has done a terrific job already - the little mistakes are numerous, but for one thing she's missed, there's two dozens she got right. <br /><br />Adam:<br /><br />"Buddhist enlightenment reached while meditating on a mountaintop...really?"<br /><br />Well... a lot of WOT has been about this sort of stuff all along, or leading there. <br /> <br /><br />You can't really re invent old wisdom in the end, you have to go with some of the classic stuff to make it work. <br /><br />I'm not surprised (or judging) that for a lot of readers that disappoints or seems trite, but for me it's been fairly obvious it was going in this direction all along. You cannot based a series novel so much in mythological themes withoutgoing there eventually, unless your purpose is to challenge the old wisdom itself. But that was never RJ's goal - his series's originality never rested on deviating from the Hero's Journey. He stuck very closely to it. He has a much deeper understanding of it than most recent Fantasy writers, IMO. That set him apart. The other characteristic is that unlike most writers who stick to one version, RJ has multiplicated the influences and variations, and send all his main cast on Hero's Journey instead of keeping this for Rand, and making the others agents on his path. Moiraine for instance isn't only the mentor. She too is on her own path to enlightenment. Same for Cadsuane etc. Most authors would rather have used them as Obi-Wan Kenobis/Gandalf. RJ has made them that, but also made them Heroes in their own rights, sending Moiraine to the underworld, for instance.<br /><br />I thought the moutain was a very good use of symbolism for myself. It's buddhist, but not onlybuddhist. There's Christ tempted by the Devil and several other influences converging in that scene, IMO. I think it's very well done, for myself.Dominichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17610557134981958201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-87099006281525029082009-11-06T13:12:30.932-05:002009-11-06T13:12:30.932-05:00I loved the book, and I enjoyed reading your thoug...I loved the book, and I enjoyed reading your thoughtful reviews. Veins of Gold felt more Brandon Sanderson than RJ to me, personally.<br /><br />I loved that chapter, btw.<br /><br />I have to say that I am thoroughly impressed by the little things that people notice about minor characters, misused word placement, and inconsistencies in plot, story, or character location... I thought I was a big fan, but I hardly noticed those details. This is why I appreciate this site so much. You guys really pay attention to the details of the series that make it even more of a masterpiece.<br /><br />Maybe you guys should be on the editing board the next time around so that little inconsistencies won't be overlooked like they seem to have been in this version.Lauren (Kip Mylo)https://www.blogger.com/profile/10734697630811718701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-36508197364042450792009-11-06T12:28:06.079-05:002009-11-06T12:28:06.079-05:00For the most part I agree with your reviews. I rea...For the most part I agree with your reviews. I really enjoyed the book.<br /><br />One thing I'm troubled about is how much everybody liked the Veins of Gold chapter, which was my least favorite in the entire book.<br /><br />I thought it was trite and cliche-ridden. Buddhist enlightenment reached while meditating on a mountaintop...really?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02030477790305703542noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-59145265599041817632009-11-06T12:10:39.535-05:002009-11-06T12:10:39.535-05:00Thanks!
A look back at Verin through the whole se...Thanks!<br /><br />A look back at Verin through the whole series is definitely something we will do during the TGS read-through! She's my favourite secondary character and TGS definitely didn't change that!<br /><br />I will probably write a Verin essay of my own down the line, though I don't know if I will do it in 2009/2010 or after the whole series is finished.Dominichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17610557134981958201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-90721594773826808112009-11-06T12:04:02.936-05:002009-11-06T12:04:02.936-05:00Linda and Dominic:
One thing I am looking forward...Linda and Dominic:<br /><br />One thing I am looking forward to (hint, hint)is a Monday morning QB analysis of Verin's character in the earlier books now that we know about her. I am especially looking forward to a review of what she was really doing in TGH. In particular her interactions with Ingtar (as I recall, they have a private conversation during Barthanes' party in which Ingtar looks "stunned"), should be interestig in light of what we now know.<br /><br />Keep up the good work. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-86265491502324487842009-11-06T00:47:44.635-05:002009-11-06T00:47:44.635-05:00I'm wondering where those other letters Verin ...I'm wondering where those other letters Verin had ended up... Will need to do a re-read of TGS when I have time to really look at the details of the book.Chris Hallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00804225898571919517noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-32939148899974316922009-11-05T22:18:08.887-05:002009-11-05T22:18:08.887-05:00Great reviews.
My own personal guess, Veins of Go...Great reviews.<br /><br />My own personal guess, Veins of Gold was so well written, at least to me, that I have to think that is one of the chapters RJ did himself. Or if not the entire chapter, at least Rand's time on Dragonmount.wolrahtnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-74444717064463073102009-11-05T15:17:14.829-05:002009-11-05T15:17:14.829-05:00I agree about the wait for ToM and TMoL/WOT-fix. W...I agree about the wait for ToM and TMoL/WOT-fix. While I'm excited for the final two installments, I'm more than OK with them taking all the time they need to finish them up. <br /><br />While TGS wasn't perfect, when it was good, it was really good. If it takes a little more time to make a great book, so be it.Benhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17210862608619471273noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-89313169970629163972009-11-05T14:38:22.111-05:002009-11-05T14:38:22.111-05:00great reviews!great reviews!Nethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16963540055415924510noreply@blogger.com