tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post7587116205089704159..comments2024-01-14T15:52:43.644-05:00Comments on The Thirteenth Depository - A Wheel of Time Blog: The Composition and Politics of the Halls 998-1000 NEDominichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17610557134981958201noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-38225366111068283532020-05-14T03:38:56.256-04:002020-05-14T03:38:56.256-04:00Thank you. It's actually a gremlin that crept ...Thank you. It's actually a gremlin that crept in because Ferane's birth year is inconsistent in Robert Jordan's notes; 727 in one place, 827 in another. I had it as 727 in the other 2 sections of this article. I missed this instance when I checked it against the Companion. Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-84222632910533957602020-03-10T16:54:55.210-04:002020-03-10T16:54:55.210-04:00Randomly re-reading your blog over the last few we...Randomly re-reading your blog over the last few weeks ... such incredible thoroughness! I do see one thing on this one that seems to be a typo in Ferane's birth year. You have her as born 827 but the Companion states 727.JDH1973https://www.blogger.com/profile/16494965142927122611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-54366226643202680662016-08-03T13:24:56.400-04:002016-08-03T13:24:56.400-04:00The Wheel of Time Companion must be wrong, because...The Wheel of Time Companion must be wrong, because it states that Javindhra was raised Sitter for the Red in 985 NE; it also says she stood to depose Siuan.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-4970064825340059402010-11-27T21:38:36.368-05:002010-11-27T21:38:36.368-05:00"one of the Chosen" could be any of seve..."one of the Chosen" could be any of several villains. And Sheriam doesn't know she's speaking to Mesaana -- just a Forsaken-strength channeler of saidar. <br /><br />Aran'gar wasn't even alive yet when Sheriam's Six started thinking about options for the Amyrlin, and they were trying to meet with Egwene before Aran'gar arrives in Salidar in LoC 30. So I'm just suggesting you should make a correction to show it's unknown whose idea it was to make Egwene Amyrlin. (Unless someone asked RJ/BS the question and got a straight answer on it.)Byronnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-47544489158615688962010-11-27T15:23:37.215-05:002010-11-27T15:23:37.215-05:00Yes, the idea was brought up by Siuan. It would ha...Yes, the idea was brought up by Siuan. It would have died without support though. Sheriam said in <i>The Gathering Storm</i> to Mesaana that she supported Egwene for Amyrlin at Aran'gar's orders. TGS In Darkness:<br /><br />"But it was by orders from one of the Chosen that I helped raise her as Amyrlin in the first place!"Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-56782392495066420222010-11-27T11:37:35.220-05:002010-11-27T11:37:35.220-05:00You write that Sheriam supported Egwene for Amyrli...You write that Sheriam supported Egwene for Amyrlin at Halima's orders. Is there any certain evidence of this? Halima arrives in Salidar in LoC, but the idea to raise Egwene is hinted at in FoH. (When Nynaeve and Elayne arrive in Salidar, they tell Sheriam's Six that they can communicate with Egwene via T'a'R, and Carlyinya [I think] says something to the effect of "It will be useful to communicate with the young al'Vere," and gives the others a meaningful look. Also, when Siuan is talking to them about who the rebel Amyrlin should be, she says someone strong in the OP who was out of the Tower when the split happened. She probably wants to suggest her old pal Moiraine, but the others seem to already have Egwene in mind.) My assumption was that Mesaana, as the main engineer of the Tower split, picked Egwene. Though the problem with this is that we can be pretty certain Mesaana is the Forsaken who tells Sheriam to steal the dream ter'angreal -- the one who Sheriam tells that one of the Chosen instructed her to raise Egwene. But Sheriam cannot be certain of the identity of her visitor, and maybe never knew who she was talking to. (No one besides the other Forsaken and us readers ever knew that Halima was Balthamel.) Anyway, it's something I've been curious about for a while, so I'd be interested to hear other theories!Byronnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-72766688577967811392010-11-27T08:10:26.778-05:002010-11-27T08:10:26.778-05:00I thought Katerine was only a mistress of novice? ...I thought Katerine was only a mistress of novice? In tGS when the Seachan attack Saerin questioned Katerine "since when does the mistress of novice outranks a sitter?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-68819400695679992722010-11-26T20:59:25.609-05:002010-11-26T20:59:25.609-05:00Terez: None of the too young Sitters were kept in ...Terez: None of the too young Sitters were kept in the reunited Hall except Andaya, who was the one who formally asked Egwene to be Amyrlin. The other Sitters are all the usual age now and have the requisite experience. I don't see the Greens as being anything unusual in that. <br /><br />A Hall of proper age provides the greatest possible contrast with their young Amyrlin. It's a complement to Egwene as a tough advserary since she's getting the better of the Hall.<br /><br />Peter: Thanks. I assumed I'd put that in last year.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-13734144712001946662010-11-26T19:24:52.915-05:002010-11-26T19:24:52.915-05:00Hi Linda,
A small omission to an otherwise well co...Hi Linda,<br />A small omission to an otherwise well collated article.<br /><br />Under section 2. The Tower Under Elaida, Keeper:<br /><br />In ToM, Katerine obtained the post of Keeper after Tarna went to the Black Tower.Peternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-57958100312943372532010-11-26T17:37:26.983-05:002010-11-26T17:37:26.983-05:00I posted a rant about the new Green Sitter a week ...I posted a rant about the new Green Sitter a week or two ago on Theoryland. I still don't understand why none of the too-young Green Sitters were kept. Perhaps it has something to do with the Green's resistance to Egwene. Which in turn might have something to do with the fact that they can't officially claim Egwene as having risen from their Ajah, despite her spoken desire to have joined them.Terezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12417142245785029171noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-84533517022361483912010-08-17T06:07:10.797-04:002010-08-17T06:07:10.797-04:00Grijze: :) Not a big deal at all.
As for correcti...Grijze: :) Not a big deal at all.<br /><br />As for corrections for the TGS paperback, I believe there are quite a few of them but I don't know for certain if this is one. I agree that it will be interesting to see what changes are made and also of course what information Towers of Midnight reveals to us about which rebel Sitters went to the BT.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-19840996899743949022010-08-17T05:35:27.401-04:002010-08-17T05:35:27.401-04:00Thank you, Linda. I'm ashamed I missed that an...Thank you, Linda. I'm ashamed I missed that and tried to correct you.<br />Anyhow, do you happen to know if he changed that in the paperback edition and, if so, how.<br />Corrections might give information as well.Grijze Vosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-9168546947565180622010-08-17T04:29:35.335-04:002010-08-17T04:29:35.335-04:00Grijze: That was one of a few errors about Aes Sed...Grijze: That was one of a few errors about Aes Sedai laws and customs by Brandon in The Gathering Storm. The second youngest Sitter weaves the ward against eavesdropping and the youngest declares, while holding the Power, that it is against the Law for any person to intrude unasked upon the Hall for any reason.<br /><br />We know from a few quotes in earlier books that Kwamesa is the youngest Sitter and Aledrin the second youngest (<i>The Path of Daggers,</i> The Law).Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-44440695896647704992010-08-16T21:21:43.668-04:002010-08-16T21:21:43.668-04:00As allways I like your essays, but I think you mis...As allways I like your essays, but I think you missed something this time.<br />By custom, she had ordered Kwamesa to weave the ward against eavesdropping, as the sharp nosed Grey was the youngest among the Sitters in the large tent.<br />(tGS, chapter 43)<br /><br />During the meeting in KoD, chapter 23, Kwamesa was present as well, but Aledrin wove the ward.<br />This implies that Aledrin is younger as Kwamesa, but absent.<br />So, I think Aledrin has been sent to the Black Tower.Grijze Vosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-80652812346479344012010-07-20T19:52:10.082-04:002010-07-20T19:52:10.082-04:00Thank you for your nice reply, Anonymous. It's...Thank you for your nice reply, Anonymous. It's true that 6 fled, but there was another that needed replacing: Elaida herself. She was a Sitter for a short time until she manipulated the Hall into instigating all this. Hence the 7.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-79528077112849763562010-07-20T18:43:10.118-04:002010-07-20T18:43:10.118-04:00Linda, great work as always, though much of the gr...Linda, great work as always, though much of the groundwork was at WOT FAQ. Still a lot to update.<br /><br />One very small correction, in the main post you state that that Elaida's Tower had to elect 7 new Sitters to replace those who fled to Salidar after the coup, but in actuality, I think it is only 6.<br /><br />First off, only 8 Sitters fled. <br />i. 2 Blues (Lelaine, Lyrelle). (the other died in the coup). No need to replace them. No Blue Ajah.<br /><br />ii. 2 Browns (Janya, Takima).<br />iii. 1 Green (Faselle)<br />iv. 1 Gray (Varilin)<br />v. 1 Yellow (Magla)<br />vi. 1 White (Saroiya).<br /><br />That leaves 13 more Sitters.<br /><br />i. 11 voted to depose Siuan. None of these Sitters fled. Thought there was some shuffling. Among the Reds Elaida was raised and Teslyn later unchaired, paving the way for Javindra and Duhara). All the others who voted to depose remained Sitters.<br /><br />ii. Seaine was the only Sitter not informed who stayed.<br /><br />iii. The third Blue Sitter was killed in the coup.<br /><br />So, there are only 6 that needed to be replaced because they fled.<br /><br />1: Brown: Janya >> Juiliane<br />2: Brown: Takima >> Shevan<br />3: Gray: Varilin >> Andaya<br />4: Yellow: Magla >> Suanan (Head)<br />5: White: Saroiya >> Ferane (Head)<br />6: Green: Faiselle >> Joline >> Rina.<br /><br />Joline was unchaired, and replaced by the too young Rina.<br /><br />You've got it all right it the article, just that little typo in the text (6, not 7).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-46759257205193112122010-01-19T15:22:37.561-05:002010-01-19T15:22:37.561-05:00Thanks! :)Thanks! :)Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-3726489645230013452010-01-17T17:27:12.617-05:002010-01-17T17:27:12.617-05:00You are likely correct, Rubinde is clearly not con...You are likely correct, Rubinde is clearly not considered an "odd choice" ... BTW very impressive how much research has gone into all these posts!JDH1973https://www.blogger.com/profile/16494965142927122611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-8638693673932805242010-01-17T15:27:31.977-05:002010-01-17T15:27:31.977-05:00I'll expand that sentence about Rubinde a litt...I'll expand that sentence about Rubinde a little more. What the Crossroads of Twilight Prologue confirmed is that the Greens only had to replace one Sitter after the Coup - Faiselle. She was first replaced by Joline for only a few weeks and then by Rina. It was Rina's selection that was atypical.<br /><br />Rubinde is considered a typical Sitter therefore she was not raised after the Coup.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-26436948479381533182010-01-17T13:12:07.170-05:002010-01-17T13:12:07.170-05:00I did a little looking and I think you have Rubind...I did a little looking and I think you have Rubinde misplaced. <br /><br />Your quote:<br /><br />Rubinde is not a newly raised Sitter (Crossroads of Twilight, Glimmers of the Pattern) and nor is Faiselle:<br /><br /> …it has been mentioned, very quietly, by Varilin, and by Takima, and also by Magla. And Faiselle and Saroiya have appeared interested in what they have had to say.”<br /><br /> Calm or no calm, a worm of anger suddenly writhed inside Egwene, and crushing it was no easy task. Those five had been Sitters before the Tower was broken…<br /><br /> -Crossroads of Twilight, The Subject of Negotiations<br /><br />But Rubinde is not actually mentioned as one of the 5 ... they are Varilin, Takima, Magla, Faiselle and Saroiya.<br /><br />We also know that Joline was a Sitter for a brief time after Elaida was raised, but the timeline is strange...<br /><br />"Joline was a different matter. She had held her chair for the Green only a matter of weeks, and everyone was sure the Greens had selected her to show they would not be cowed by the new Amyrlin, who had handed her a fearsome penance."<br /><br />~ACOS, Lightnings<br /><br />Oddly she was already on Elaida's council when she got the Penance which was weeks after the rebels left the Tower (in fact she "earned" her penance for not being able to track down Siuan's helper).<br /><br />This leaves us assuming the Greens took their time replacing Faiselle after she left the Tower. Seems like Joline could have been the first choice of "too young Sitter" sent by Adelorna, but IIRC she's pretty close to an appropriate age for a Sitter (80-odd years with the shawl if she had the shawl when Elaida's mother was a child).<br /><br />A less likely alternative is that there was another Green Sitter who stepped down after the rebellion opening up a second spot which Joline filled and was later removed from. Since we don't have confirmation that Rubinde was actually a Sitter prior to the Rebellion this is possible.JDH1973https://www.blogger.com/profile/16494965142927122611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-25296652930516277362009-12-12T17:26:12.538-05:002009-12-12T17:26:12.538-05:00What about Jolene Maza? She was a Sitter under Siu...What about Jolene Maza? She was a Sitter under Siuan who I believe also voted for Elaida before being unchaired, re-chaired then sent packing to Ebou Dar... did I miss something?JDH1973https://www.blogger.com/profile/16494965142927122611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-45733702417905083922009-11-21T21:21:01.803-05:002009-11-21T21:21:01.803-05:00And the glossary also says:
First Reasoner: The t...And the glossary also says:<br /><br />First Reasoner: The title given to the head of the White Ajah. This position is currently held by Ferane<br />Neheran, an Aes Sedai in the White Tower. <br /><br />which sounds as though there isn't a White Ajah Head among the rebels anymore. As though she is dead, perhaps executed for being Black.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-40019023302596326542009-11-21T20:57:25.659-05:002009-11-21T20:57:25.659-05:00After Anayia died, it sounds like Lelaine got hers...After Anayia died, it sounds like Lelaine got herself chosen First Selector after all. <br /><br />The conversation with Siuan in KOD seemed to rule it out, but perhaps the election of the AH wasn't done yet. <br /><br />In any case, the glossary of TGS now says Lelaine is "suspected" of being the First Selector - not quite as good as a confirmation, but considering it's in a book where the issue didn't even come up, it's close to one...Dominichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17610557134981958201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-43884868625405741272009-11-21T18:07:24.246-05:002009-11-21T18:07:24.246-05:00It's true that Elaida wasn't a Sitter yet,...It's true that Elaida wasn't a Sitter yet, but she was able to influence the Hall's vote by addressing the Hall on how dangerous Rand is and criticising Moiraine (of Siuan's former Ajah) for 'meddling with' him.<br /><br />I have added this to the article.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-40056256833377272042009-11-21T16:59:43.542-05:002009-11-21T16:59:43.542-05:00I agree with you Linda, there have been too many s...I agree with you Linda, there have been too many seemingly random shifts in the Blue since Anaiya died. It also helps explain why there were 2 Blues on the Council. Sheriam would have been there because she is the strongest sister in Salidar and seems to be one of the instigators of the rebellion (kind of the defacto Amyrlin), but Anaiya and the others were AHs in Salidar and probably also the strongest sister of each Ajah as well. The big question is why the Yellow remained so much less organized in Salidar until Romanda showed up.<br /><br />On another note, you have Elaida voting to not allow more Blues in Siuan's entourage, but shouldn't this be Amira Moselle? Elaida wasn't a Sitter until TDR (or around the end of TGH when Elayne went missing). She was still Morgase's adviser at the time of this vote.JDH1973https://www.blogger.com/profile/16494965142927122611noreply@blogger.com