tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post7620757946491356615..comments2024-01-14T15:52:43.644-05:00Comments on The Thirteenth Depository - A Wheel of Time Blog: Saidar Strength RankingDominichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17610557134981958201noreply@blogger.comBlogger110125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-73485614787905143452023-10-21T08:36:45.553-04:002023-10-21T08:36:45.553-04:00Minimum strength to travel is dumb shouldnt their ...Minimum strength to travel is dumb shouldnt their be women who well weak can still travel like androl is for menAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-21761725555094100242021-12-24T01:32:13.057-05:002021-12-24T01:32:13.057-05:00Thanks Ricardo, I'm glad you like it.Thanks Ricardo, I'm glad you like it.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-45019451089935733012021-12-23T23:37:48.176-05:002021-12-23T23:37:48.176-05:00just...Bravo. Using this method and citing the boo...just...Bravo. Using this method and citing the books or Jordan's notes directly make it an indispensable resource. <Thank you!Ricardohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01634211446735401811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-72957710127494066752021-12-03T16:12:26.742-05:002021-12-03T16:12:26.742-05:00Only for the uppermost levels. Jordan didn't l...Only for the uppermost levels. Jordan didn't leave any info on most males. <br /><br /><a href="https://13depository.blogspot.com/2016/12/robert-jordans-channeller-strength.html" rel="nofollow">Robert Jordan's Channeller Strength Ranking</a>Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-86252054355826886652021-12-03T11:02:16.113-05:002021-12-03T11:02:16.113-05:00Interesting list, thanks a lot! Is there one when ...Interesting list, thanks a lot! Is there one when males and females are compared?7whttps://www.boardgame-news.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-33070691094489877682021-05-05T22:31:46.768-04:002021-05-05T22:31:46.768-04:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Lucienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-52547944613023909832016-04-04T04:47:10.648-04:002016-04-04T04:47:10.648-04:00I HATE Jordon for reducing Moiraine's strength...I HATE Jordon for reducing Moiraine's strength!!!<br /><br />Sacrifices should be rewarded, not punished. He could have kept her on her own strength,if not greater. Reducing her to level of almost accepted is as unjust as it getsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-55130254425636410152014-11-26T08:01:06.754-05:002014-11-26T08:01:06.754-05:00I would like to leave a comment concerning the las...I would like to leave a comment concerning the last paragraphs.<br />I think this concept of culling male channelers from the gene pool is completely twisted. My problems are:<br />1. Males tend to "spark" in older ages (Rand, who is the strongest possible channeler and therefore would spark early, sparked at the age of 19). The spark manifests even ages of 25-30 years. Therefore, even male "wilders" have possibility (as we saw some examples from the series) to have progeny - their genes stay in the gene pool! Not even mentioning the non-sparkers, who don't channel at all, but have the ability. Perfect example for this non-culling is the family of Lord Algarin. Generations of "men with unmentionable problem", in Tear, within the noble houses...<br />2. NONE of the aes sedai we saw had children. Yes, there are examples of aes sedai supporting their relatives, their genetic material, so to say (nieces, nephews...), but that's not the same as having progeny. So the aes sedai have been removing themselves from the gene pool quite effectively, not the channeling men.<br />3. Being reborn: channeling ability is both genetical AND bound to the soul (channelers are reborn as their own descendands? Quite funny :)). We do not know how often a soul is reborn, but we have Rand (after ~3000 years) and Birgitte (several times in a 3000 year span). And if you are reborn, it doesn't matter that you had been gentled in your previous life, you'll still carry the ability - thus screwing Darwin over big time... :o)))<br /><br />Anyway, brilliant blog, I enjoy reading it a lot. This is my first comment though, the topic of culling has been bothering since it first came up in the series. The aes sedai are weakening because of their own stupid policies (not actively searching, not having progeny, and so on and so on...) - and of course they blame the men for it...BigBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-11953616372807869442014-10-15T15:45:11.916-04:002014-10-15T15:45:11.916-04:00I see that you have Annoura as a minimum Level 8, ...I see that you have Annoura as a minimum Level 8, the level required to Travel. But she burned herself out creating the gateway to bring Galad to the Healing House, so I can't imagine that she can actually Travel whenever she feels like it. I would put her at Level 8 maximum, and on the low-low-low side of that. I'd feel more comfortable with her on Level 7, honestly.Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-15366164228229546152014-07-07T10:48:45.544-04:002014-07-07T10:48:45.544-04:00Excuse me, I don't mean to be a pest but I do ...Excuse me, I don't mean to be a pest but I do hope you will add Sabeine Ocalin to the list.<br /><br />From COT 14, What Wise Ones Know, page 347:<br /><br />"Sabeine Ocalin and Julanya Fote were Kinswomen who could Travel".<br /><br />I think that makes it clear that Sabeine is strong enough to Travel on her own. <br /><br />I don't think that Knife of Dreams, Wet Things should eliminate her. It says that only 8 of the Kin with Elayne at the time could Travel; then, Sabeine was probably elsewhere at the time and thus not included in the 8.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-73955565205751628242013-12-31T04:40:56.583-05:002013-12-31T04:40:56.583-05:00Also, we have evidence from RJ, I believe, that Ki...Also, we have evidence from RJ, I believe, that Kiruna (and by extension, Bera and Kwamesa) are on the same level as Leane, the next level down from Siuan's and Moiraine's original strength.<br /><br />The evidence is taken from this paragraph, which is found in the collection of RJ answers to questions and comments at signings etc., found here: <br /><br />http://13depository.blogspot.co.uk/2009/03/plots-characters-and-wheel-of-time.html<br /><br />On channeller strength he said that he knew the rough strength of every channeller in the books, imposed on a 21-graded scale. Nynaeve he said had Forsaken strength, i.e. as strong as most female Forsaken. Egwene, Elayne and Aviendha were a step lower, and an additional step lower Elaida, Siuan and Moiraine was found. They were the strongest Aes Sedai known before "the new ones". Several Aes Sedai, including Leane and Kiruna, were next in strength. By the old standards they were deemed very strong and capable.<br /><br />Hopefully this clarifies some of the disagreement above about whether Kiruna, Bera and Kwmesa are equal to Sheriam (who is equal to Leane).Brenenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-26776262216650787232013-12-30T19:37:34.845-05:002013-12-30T19:37:34.845-05:00Wasn't Saerin having to work much harder and m...Wasn't Saerin having to work much harder and much longer also to do with the fact she was the only novice recruited by the Daughters of Silence to make the shawl? I imagine she was being held back and expected to prove herself even more than a usual novice/accepted.Brenenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-2172392610454483222013-09-22T06:16:48.005-04:002013-09-22T06:16:48.005-04:00There is a quote that I used in the commentary:
P...There is a quote that I used in the commentary:<br /><br />Pevara matched Saerin and Yukiri in strength,<br /><br />- A Path Of Daggers, The Extra Bit<br /><br />That says it all. <br /><br />Saerin is equal in strength to Pevara and Yukiri. She loses some ranking compared to those on the same saidar strength level as her because she trained twice as long as they did. However strength in saidar is the first applied criterion so she would still rank above Talene who is on the next strength level down.<br /><br />But her 40 years made up for her longer training as far as Sitters are concerned. That is why Saerin is leading them. This is a Hall matter, since they are investigating it as Sitters, and she is the highest ranked Sitter in the Hall. The oldest and the longest serving Sitters are ranked highest. At that time Saerin was both.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-55500157756634685702013-09-22T05:35:54.947-04:002013-09-22T05:35:54.947-04:00I think you have done a great job of ranking stren...I think you have done a great job of ranking strenght. The only problem I have is with Saerin. I do not think she is as powerful as the other Sitters who interrogate Talene and here's why. In Winter's Heart,Prologue(Snow)Seaine muses as she's thinking on hierarchies:<br />"In truth, Saerin had been both novice and Accepted twice as long as most of them(Seaine, Pevara, Yukiri, and Doesine), but forty years as a Sitter, longer than anyone else in the Hall, counted for a great deal." Also, in Path of Daggers I believe I recall Seaine mentioning that Saerin had to work hard to earn the shawl. Usually only those who are weaker in the power have trouble earning the shawl and usually only earn the shawl because of their own will-power and intelligence.<br />I believe that Saerin only stands above Seaine and the other Sitters(Seaine, Pevara, Yukiri, and Doesine) because of her time in the Hall, not because of her strenght in the power. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-2270475971574390112012-11-04T03:18:33.240-05:002012-11-04T03:18:33.240-05:00Re the discussion on Sabeine Ocalin above -
I ch...Re the discussion on Sabeine Ocalin above - <br /><br />I checked COT 14, What Wise Ones Know. page 347 (in my book) has the ff. quote:<br /><br />Elayne: "I sent MIstress Ocalin and Mistress Fote to visit some of the villages a few miles south of the border." Sabeine Ocalin and Julanya Fote were Kinswomen who could travel. <br /><br />That should firmly place her at Level 8, at a minimum.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-50547512481907669262012-10-20T14:48:35.408-04:002012-10-20T14:48:35.408-04:00I'm not certain this is evidence that Sareitha...I'm not certain this is evidence that Sareitha, Adeleas and Vanden are weaker than Merilille<br /><br />"Yet in Andor Merilille was always accompanied by Reanne Corly to make gateways for her. Careane is the weakest Aes Sedai of this embassy as we saw in level 5. Vandene, Adeleas and Sareitha all defer to Merilille – and Vandene and Adeleas are far older than Merilille - and therefore are on level 6 and Merilille is one level higher on level 7."<br /><br />Merilille is the Hall appointed Embassay leader so all the Sisters in her group would defer to her even if they were significantly stronger.<br /><br />What we do know is that Sareitha, Adeleas and Vandene are not strong enough to Travel. They could all easily be on level 7 or level 6, but simply deferring to an appointed leader isn't evidence that they are weaker than Merilille. You'll note that Adeleas and Vandene were not challenged when they took charge of Ispan and we see no deference to Merilille once the group was no longer officially the Ebu Dari embassy.JDH1973https://www.blogger.com/profile/16494965142927122611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-54450673494252861352012-03-13T02:16:52.298-04:002012-03-13T02:16:52.298-04:00Just ran some numbers over at Theoryland, and they...Just ran some numbers over at Theoryland, and they seem to say that 4 is too low for the cuttoff for Aes Sedai. Because given a normal distribution where 62.5% of female channelers can test for the shawl (as is canon from RJ), that would mean 37.5% of female channelers are at 19+<br /><br />Or, more than one in three are stronger than Nynaeve. Which just doesn't play well.<br /><br />Regards,<br />UUnreasonernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-8709671982235147912012-03-13T01:24:25.451-04:002012-03-13T01:24:25.451-04:00Yeah, I certainly think it is possible that both G...Yeah, I certainly think it is possible that both Gitara and Tamra were as strong as Elaida, or maybe even stronger.<br /><br />Linda:<br /><br />While I agree that the current placement of Sharina is a good minimum level for her, she may just as well be one or two levels above. Your reasoning that "considerably stronger" was not used to describe her, but was used to describe Alivia doesn't hold much, I think. Reanne was, it seems, talking about current strengths when she compared Nynaeve to Alivia, whereas the AS clearly talk of Sharina's potential. It could well be that at Nynaeve's full potential, Alivia wouldn't be "considerably" stronger than her, just stronger.<br /><br />I think it is entirely possible the upper echelons are more along the lines of:<br /><br />Level 21: Lanfear, Alivia (?), Sharina (?) <br /><br />Level 20: Cyndane, Nynaeve (?)<br /><br />Level 19: Graendal, Semirhage (?)<br /><br />Level 18: Mesaana<br /><br />Alternatively, Graendal, Semirhage and Nynaeve may all be at level 19.<br /><br />The reason I put it this way is that Graendal's assessment that Semirhage was the strongest in the Demandred-Mesaana-Semirhage alliance wouldn't have come across without <i>some</i> swagger about Semrihage's lack of strength if Semi had been weaker than Graendal. But Semirhage equal to or slightly stronger than Graendal makes sense in the context of both her statements.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-40256455859816565872012-02-26T00:35:37.531-05:002012-02-26T00:35:37.531-05:00Hey Linda .... What makes you think Gitara was at ...Hey Linda .... What makes you think Gitara was at most the same Strength as Romanda? She is already dead when Cadsuane makes her comments about rankings and given the rumors of her age being beyond 300 she coul easily have been stronger than Romanda yet below Mielyn and Karene since they had not been matched in 600 years. Am I missing a quote?JDH1973https://www.blogger.com/profile/16494965142927122611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-64621311061201625242011-12-15T12:12:26.918-05:002011-12-15T12:12:26.918-05:00I am sorry I mis quoted or mis read...Moiraine di...I am sorry I mis quoted or mis read...Moiraine did say that with the bracelet she was stronger than she was before she was taken. Still, as she was pretty High up at that time that makes her pretty strong with it. If it were me I would super glue the bracelet to my wrist! LOL (Maybe Elayne could make one for Siuan and Leane-that would be a hoot!)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18378868697299029908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-85295318375075064722011-11-03T00:00:03.240-04:002011-11-03T00:00:03.240-04:00I find it very interesting that so many are ranked...I find it very interesting that so many are ranked in the 8-11 category when it's supposed to be so rare. Mind you, we've barely truly met even a 5th of the AS population and it would make sense that RJ would focus on stronger characters seeing as they'd be the ones doing interesting things.<br /><br />I also agree that the tower is in need of reformation. I don't necessarily believe that the whole strength thing needs to be completely shed, but I DO think they need to revisit how useful weaker sisters can be in light of circles. I think it would help enormously in making those who are relatively weak feel far less hopeless and of much more value.Gifted Designshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01972599105406385581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-80943574468759257662011-09-03T00:03:35.741-04:002011-09-03T00:03:35.741-04:00Need to add Suian (new) under level 2Need to add Suian (new) under level 2Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-12705604911997117672011-07-31T16:41:41.863-04:002011-07-31T16:41:41.863-04:00Does anyone know where Corele would rank? I can...Does anyone know where Corele would rank? I can't think that she's weak seeing as she's rather ireeverant. But that could also be her personality.Gifted Designshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01972599105406385581noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-63740146364498478592011-07-29T18:30:14.862-04:002011-07-29T18:30:14.862-04:00Given that Moiraine and Siuan were already the str...Given that Moiraine and Siuan were already the strongest in the Tower, and the very real likelihood that Moiraine probably also believes Cadsuane to be dead there is no reason for her to say "stronger than any woman in the Tower" ... to her in that moment they are one and the same thing. She also does not know and Nynaeve or Egwene or Elayne are full AS and thus would not truly consider them "of the Tower".JDH1973https://www.blogger.com/profile/16494965142927122611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-32908820828986059862011-07-29T12:22:04.838-04:002011-07-29T12:22:04.838-04:00I guess it hardly matters since she also stated th...<i>I guess it hardly matters since she also stated that with the braceelet she was stronger than any woman in the tower-since she has met Nyneave, and Cadsuane she would be speaking the turth about those two, at least</i><br /><br />Moiraine only said the angreal makes her "stronger in the Power than before I was taken," not that she would be stronger than any woman in the Tower.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com