tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post1570579740225288077..comments2024-01-14T15:52:43.644-05:00Comments on The Thirteenth Depository - A Wheel of Time Blog: How Do Channellers Detect Other Channellers?Dominichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17610557134981958201noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-28651334621459073202019-10-02T05:18:50.034-04:002019-10-02T05:18:50.034-04:00It makes sense. Thanks!It makes sense. Thanks!Sunnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15513373373740436509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-26436867791467520512019-09-02T02:01:03.001-04:002019-09-02T02:01:03.001-04:00I think it is similar to testing for women that we...I think it is similar to testing for women that we saw in TEOTW when Moiraine tested Egwene: if the candidate can sense the power the tester channels, then they can at the least learn to channel. If this spurs a tiny dribble of the Power out of them, then they are sparkers.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-5486430048931728682019-08-12T17:20:34.554-04:002019-08-12T17:20:34.554-04:00I have been wondering about male sparkers. In LoC,...I have been wondering about male sparkers. In LoC, Taim shows Rand how to test a male channeler, but specify this mean he can "learn" to channel; and when he finds Narishma, he tells Rand he is different - he is a sparker, even if he has not yet channeled. But he does not specify where the difference lies. Does the test go any different, if the man in question is a sparker and not a learner? Or did he find out about Narishma some other way (and if so, how?)<br />Or did I just missed it?Sunnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15513373373740436509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-82223169758509829352009-12-23T04:58:18.459-05:002009-12-23T04:58:18.459-05:00But the Aes Sedai don't believe anything the m...But the Aes Sedai don't believe anything the men say just like that and poor Eben was only 16. They took quite a while to believe that saidin was cleaned of the taint, even Corele (linked to Damer) and Merise (Narishma, who repeatedly said it was).<br /><br />Narishma was making sure that the sceptical rebel Hall believed him by adding Daigian's (an Aes Sedai's) verification. He was right to do so: I doubt they would have believed what he said otherwise, and then that would call into doubt everything else he said...Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-73382523092366395512009-12-23T04:38:16.471-05:002009-12-23T04:38:16.471-05:00"It might be impossible, but she did it. Daig..."It might be impossible, but she did it. Daigian told us what Eben said, and she couldn't detect anything at all even while the woman was channelling. It had to be saidin."<br /><br />I always thought that they assumed Aran'gar channelled saidin simply because Eben said so. <br /><br />"Suddenly, Eben felt the blood drain from his face. What he felt was impossible! The green-eyed woman frowned in surprise, and he did the only thing that he could. 'She'ls holding saidin!' he shouted, and threw himself at her as he felt Daigian draw deeply on the Power."<br /><br />I always thought that to be the main reason they assumed saidin was being used. If Eben hadn't sensed saidin, and stated that, wouldn't they just have thought the same as Verin did of Graendal? That they were fighting off weaves they couldn't see? <br /><br />But I don't have an explanation about Moghedien's assumptions regarding Aran'gar. I do, however, really like the theory that reversing the weaves make them invisible, not undetectable, and masking your ability to channel makes people unable to sense them. Thus, you'd have to use both to completely hide your your channelling.Taura-Tiernohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11398954639993541981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-14865914980783091062009-12-08T00:48:49.210-05:002009-12-08T00:48:49.210-05:00I think the most logical conclusion to draw about ...I think the most logical conclusion to draw about the a'dam's capacity to detect women's ability to channel is that it only works once you have channeled. Thus, Aes Sedai who only had the ability to learn to channel, and do so, could still be leashed in the end. This would explain why sul'dam don't get identified as marath'damane from the get go - their potential only manifests physically once they've begun training with the a'dam.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04488478332874689058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-27932563912314261962009-04-29T19:05:00.000-04:002009-04-29T19:05:00.000-04:00Linda, that's a great point!
Dom, I didn'...Linda, that's a great point!<br /><br />Dom, I didn't mean "contrived after the fact", i.e. after the book had been published. I agree RJ would not have forgotten Rand & Nynaeve, nor the patrolling circles in the woods, as you said.<br /><br />In fact, RJ had Cadsuane worry about the circles, in that scene. Here is the text:<br /><br /><I>A second golden bird, a swallow, hung from her hand by its thin chain. "There," she said, pointing in the direction it seemed to be flying. A pity she could not say how far away the Power had been channeled, or whether by a man or a woman, but the direction would have to do. She hoped there would be no ... mishaps. Her people were out there, too. If the warning came with an attack, though, there could not be much doubt.</I>(Note that Cadsuane didn't dismiss the danger to her own circles. Also note that Alivia was NOT part of a circle, when she was patrolling.)<br /><br />Rather, I meant "contrived" as in RJ devised an explanation beforehand that seems a bit ... contrary to established OP mechanics, in order for the plot to progress as he wanted it to. As you pointed out, other channelers cannot distinguish circles from non-circles, so defining a ter'angreal that can do so is a bit contrived, as I see it.BobHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06499024096535607638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-10762148407797027302009-04-29T17:19:00.000-04:002009-04-29T17:19:00.000-04:00Eh, eh... exactly as RJ said... had they trusted e...Eh, eh... exactly as RJ said... had they trusted each other enough to form a circle, they would have won.<br /><br />I don't think RJ's explanation is 'contrived'. It stretches credibility that he would have forgotten not only Rand and Nynaeve's channeling, but also that of the circles in the woods. Cadsuane's device would have been useless, even dangerous, unless it could tell the circles from saidar and saidin wielded by the Forsaken. <br /><br />Interesting that the nature of the OP is different enough when the two halves are combined that a ter'angreal can identify it. It has to be another "form" altogether of 'detection', because to channellers the two halves are still perceived the same way, and remain gender related (ie: no channeller can detect as such saidin and saidar wielded together) <br /><br />I think it's more likely another example of RJ providing exposition about OP technologies and OP working if and when it suited him as a storyteller. He seemed terribly enthusiastic when he talked of the OP details in interviews etc., but as a storyteller he seemed a lot more careful with letting these interfere with the flow of the story. Other examples of this includes the workings of several *angreal, Mat's medallion and its side effects etc.Dominichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17610557134981958201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-39586272162629644912009-04-29T17:05:00.000-04:002009-04-29T17:05:00.000-04:00Bob:
That would mean then that if the Forsaken ha...Bob:<br /><br />That would mean then that if the Forsaken had (gasp!) cooperated and linked, the device would have ignored them and their chances of successfully making a hit would have increased greatly! What might have been...Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-24070441765712205062009-04-28T15:36:00.000-04:002009-04-28T15:36:00.000-04:00FT,
It's a good question, and RJ addressed it...FT,<br /><br />It's a good question, and RJ addressed it in the CoT Glimmers ebook Q&A:<br /><br /><I>Q: In the scene during which the taint is cleansed, Cadsuane uses a ter’angreal that detects the One Power being channeled and the direction it is coming from. She watches the ter’angreal, and when the enemy channels, she points, and someone attacks. Why doesn’t it point to the huge amounts of the One Power that Rand and Nynaeve are channeling – far more than the Forsaken are being pegged for?<br /><br />RJ: Cadsuane’s ter’angreal was made during the Breaking of the World, at a time when men and women no longer linked, or at least very rarely, since male channelers were going mad at a rate of knots. What the maker was particularly interested in detecting was men channeling, but a man channeling in combination with a woman was, by definition, safe, because no woman was going to link with a man unless she knew absolutely that he was sane and not going to go over the edge into insanity while they were linked. Thus, saidin and saidar being worked in combination could be ignored, and in fact would be a distraction, since this was and is a warning device. Cadsuane’s ter’angreal won’t point to the two halves of the Power being wielded in combination.</I>That answer seems a little contrived to me, but it's not entirely unreasonable.BobHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06499024096535607638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-91950838012448023722009-04-27T22:15:00.000-04:002009-04-27T22:15:00.000-04:00You know, I never thought of this before, but give...You know, I never thought of this before, but given the massive amounts of <I>saidar</I> and <I>saidin</I> used at the Cleansing, how could Cadsuane's Swallow <I>ter'angreal</I> point to the location of, say, Demandred's channelling, rather than consistently at Rand?Fanatic-Templarhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14788900776054473413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-73559261671131744982009-04-09T11:23:00.000-04:002009-04-09T11:23:00.000-04:00Joseph,Nope, that's incorrect. Here's a blurb on ...Joseph,<BR/><BR/>Nope, that's incorrect. Here's a blurb on Mat's medallion, from the "Ter'angreal and Allied Items" article at this site:<BR/><BR/><I>The medallion goes cool when someone channels nearby (as does one of Cadsuane’s ornaments, see above) and icy cold when someone channels weaves of saidar (The Fires of Heaven, Gateways) or saidin (Halima in Lord of Chaos, The Colour of Trust) at the wearer. These weaves then unravel. The more power being channelled, either nearby or at the wearer, the colder the medallion gets (Knife of Dreams, A Cold Medallion).</I><BR/><BR/>Here are a few direct quotes from the books, that show/imply the medallion turns cool when it detects channeling not targeted directly at Mat:<BR/><BR/><I>ACoS ch.38: Gingerly, Mat fingered the medallion. It was cool. Not the cool of someone channeling nearby—maybe they were still at it below, but that was too far off—just the cool of silver.</I><BR/><BR/><I>CoT ch.1: The silver foxhead medallion beneath his shirt lay cold against his chest; not the cold that signaled someone embracing the Source nearby, just the accumulated chill of the night and his flesh too icy to warm it, but he could not stop waiting for the other.</I><BR/><BR/><I>CoT ch.28: In the downpour, they passed within ten feet without seeing him, but the silver medallion hanging beneath his shirt went cold against his chest. At least one of them was channeling, or holding the Power, anyway.</I><BR/><BR/>Essentially, the medallion detects channeling (either active channeling or if someone simply embraces the True Source) regardles whether it's directed at Mat or not, but it only dissipates weaves directed at him.BobHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06499024096535607638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-16936961083377185882009-04-08T23:39:00.000-04:002009-04-08T23:39:00.000-04:00Question:I thought Mats medallion could only det...Question:<BR/><BR/>I thought Mats medallion could only detect active channeling targeting the wearer.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07636740926033505057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-76655475801088139292009-04-04T12:33:00.000-04:002009-04-04T12:33:00.000-04:00Yep, that's right. While I was working on the FAQ...Yep, that's right. While I was working on the FAQ back in '05, I posted several questions on the wotmania MB re issues I wasn't certain of, and you (and Onarishma and Linda and Sidious) provided a lot of good (and much appreciated) feedback. In the completed form of the FAQ, I mentioned you all, and thanked you for your help. Linda cut that paragraph out, and listed you all as contributors. Which is fine by me - that's exactly what you were.BobHhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06499024096535607638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-15218946020509582602009-04-02T11:56:00.000-04:002009-04-02T11:56:00.000-04:002005 was long enough ago that I don't recall the c...2005 was long enough ago that I don't recall the contribution I made - I assume that it was an on-going discussion that developed into a full article.Nethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16963540055415924510noreply@blogger.com