tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post2676320351461635782..comments2024-01-14T15:52:43.644-05:00Comments on The Thirteenth Depository - A Wheel of Time Blog: The Looming Towers #1: Possible DarkfriendsDominichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17610557134981958201noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-68757105285033471522010-10-19T07:54:14.284-04:002010-10-19T07:54:14.284-04:00WJ: Right then and there, I mean. Compulsion takes...WJ: Right then and there, I mean. Compulsion takes time to undo and that was quite a risk to take without good reason.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-64792995948609918342010-10-19T07:43:48.394-04:002010-10-19T07:43:48.394-04:00WJ: It's just as likely that Sorilea told the ...WJ: It's just as likely that Sorilea told the Shadow where the Domination Band was hidden. She is too weak to disarm the box herself, but she showed Elza how the weave was done.<br /><br />Elza did give the band to Semirhage while under Compulsion:<br /><br />"I live to serve, Great Mistress," the woman whispered. "I am instructed to tell you that there is Compulsion in my mind you are to remove."<br />Semirhage raised an eyebrow; she hadn't realized there were any of the Black among those Aes Sedai here. Removing Compulsion could have a very . . . nasty effect on a person. Even if the Compulsion were weak or subtle, the brain could be harmed seriously by removing it. If the Compulsion were strong . . .well, it was quite interesting to watch.<br />"Also," the woman said, handing something forward, wrapped in cloth. "I am to give you this." She removed the cloth, revealing a dull-colored metallic collar, and two bracelets. The Domination Band. <br /><br />If SH overrode the Compulsion, why waste time getting Semirhage to undo it?Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-85192351178411637072010-10-12T22:34:14.770-04:002010-10-12T22:34:14.770-04:00Sorilea? I doubt it. The big thing against her is ...Sorilea? I doubt it. The big thing against her is Elza getting the Dominion Band. Would it not make more sense that Shadar Haran was lurking in the shadows and saw the exchange about the weaves and used the True Power to get the band out of the box? The true power wouldn't be detectable any more then anything else. If Sorilea gave the weaved to Elza, would she give the bands to Semirhage while under compulsion to serve Rand? It just doesn't make sense. Shadar Haran, however, would have the means to reduce the compulsion and the *whatever it is* to order Elza and make it stick.WJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16319623062142274672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-72532812079199137722010-09-28T17:04:50.814-04:002010-09-28T17:04:50.814-04:00What you quote is about a circle of 13 only and th...What you quote is about a circle of 13 only and this size circle is required for turning a channeller to the Shadow. My point was that 7 female Dreadlords are required for such a circle and there haven't been many places where 7 such women have been together until now.<br /><br />Smaller circles are quite possible and are favoured even for many tasks. The circle of one man and one woman (in which the man has to lead) is one such.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-33681989260905001192010-09-28T16:37:09.955-04:002010-09-28T16:37:09.955-04:00Quote: "there does need to be at least 7 wome...Quote: "there does need to be at least 7 women in a circle of 13 - one more woman than the number of men."<br /><br />So, how did The Lord of the Morning(Reborn) link with El'Nynaeve ti Al'Meara Mandragoran alone while cleansing Saidin in the capital of Aridhol?Cadsuane Melaidhrinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-48626131853488565912010-07-30T08:23:45.791-04:002010-07-30T08:23:45.791-04:00Regarding Sorilea:
I wouldn't be surprised if ...Regarding Sorilea:<br />I wouldn't be surprised if there were NO DFs among the WO or Clan Chiefs. I suspect the harsh testing in Rhuidean weeds out such weak characters.<br /><br />Regarding Berelain and others with Perrin:<br />If there are DFs in Perrin's entourage, how long before we see another attempt on his life? As of KOD, Moridin wants them dead and we saw attacks on both Perrin and Mat.Nameless Asha'mannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-30785097200537118702010-07-26T07:07:29.213-04:002010-07-26T07:07:29.213-04:00Frank: Leane described Desala as a 'dreadful w...Frank: Leane described Desala as a 'dreadful woman'. But she complain at all about Melare who also interrogated her.<br /><br />Javindhra is a special case. The Highest ordered her to go - to set an example.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-80390511308836927952010-07-25T18:27:01.865-04:002010-07-25T18:27:01.865-04:00I was wondering if there was anything more to the ...I was wondering if there was anything more to the notion of Desala being Black than having a nasty temper. I reread the end of KoD just now and there really are no obvious "yep, she's Black" clues for her. She's ill-tempered, but if that were a criterion, Nynaeve would be The Highest! Frankly, except for Javindhra, who I for some reason am beginning to think is a red (ha!) herring, I don't think any of the Reds who went to the Black Tower are Black. It's such a small sample, and the criteria Pevara used so unusual, that I don't think any Blacks would have been picked up. Black-Reds seem to be particularly nasty, quite openly, and they were chosen specifically because they AREN'T particularly nasty.Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03301077496668834657noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-84287982273752536412010-07-24T10:53:42.620-04:002010-07-24T10:53:42.620-04:00If you haven't killed or tortured anyone in th...If you haven't killed or tortured anyone in the putting together, then I'd say your on safe ground. :P'rewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07099429027243675145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-23857670424093085462010-07-23T18:29:35.580-04:002010-07-23T18:29:35.580-04:00Many characters' actions can be explained away...Many characters' actions can be explained away or justified. The trouble is, that you can never find Darkfriends that way.<br /><br />I joked with Terez as I was putting the finishing touches to this article that I felt like a Whitecloak. That is the sort of mindset you need though, unless you do what Verin did. Whitecloaks of course, overdo it. Hopefully I haven't...Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-91967695854735569792010-07-23T17:25:48.730-04:002010-07-23T17:25:48.730-04:00ps- thanks as always for your thoughts, Linda. Ve...ps- thanks as always for your thoughts, Linda. Very well thought out...'rewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07099429027243675145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-87969191367489552512010-07-23T17:25:11.234-04:002010-07-23T17:25:11.234-04:00So, some food for thought as to Sorilea's posi...So, some food for thought as to Sorilea's position vis-a-vis Shadowiness...<br /><br />It seems that most people place her tGS involvement with the box as a major point in favor of Darkhood.<br />I can definitely see that, however, an opposite argument concerning her:<br />She was definitely set up on purpose as a foil or mirror character of Cadsuane (I'm not gonna cite any evidence, it's all over the place...). <br />So- as a foil, I can see her either as the "Dark" version of Cadsuane, or a true foil- on the same side, but just as Cadsuane was unable to see where she was going wrong and erred entirely, Sorilea made a similar mistake: she shared what she had learned about the warding weaves she saw Cadsaune use with others of the Wise Ones (while they all seem disdainful of learning from AS, they also seem to pick up anything they see them do...), one of whom <i>is</i> a DF. <br /><br />I kinda like the thought that the two most competent and strongest women made similar mistakes that had disastrous effects. I haven't checked, but Sorilea's reaction in tGS when Rand confronts Caddy about the Dom Bands could probably be read either way- i.e. she doesn't want to get involved, feigning innocence, or she is shamed, because she is also partially to blame for it...'rewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07099429027243675145noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-65096446864424645052010-07-23T10:51:01.284-04:002010-07-23T10:51:01.284-04:00Ah, thanks Linda. I can always count on you to kno...Ah, thanks Linda. I can always count on you to know exactly where everything is.TWWnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-50906630722562873922010-07-23T10:45:00.236-04:002010-07-23T10:45:00.236-04:00Aspeo, after Liandrin and her group stole Ter'...Aspeo, after Liandrin and her group stole Ter'angreal, Siuan ordered Verin to provide the super girls with information about Liandrin and her group. Verin could only do so after asking Alviarin for permission, since one of her black oaths prevented her from betraying black sisters without permission.<br /><br />LandroAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-24066417855405127512010-07-23T10:23:07.335-04:002010-07-23T10:23:07.335-04:00Linda, that was a very good article with some inte...Linda, that was a very good article with some interesting predictions!<br />I was wondering about something you say in these comments though. When did Alviarin give Verin permission to gather info on the BA? I had assumed that Verin did it on her own in hopes of one day exposing them.<br /><br />Also I have never believed that Berelaine is a DF. I would believe that Annoura is BA though. Berelaine has always seemed fairly straightforward in her actions, while Annoura has been more mysterious and closed about what she is doing. I could definitely see it being a case of Annoura guiding/compelling Berelaine to do things that might help the shadow.aspeonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-46358293953154928262010-07-23T06:37:06.215-04:002010-07-23T06:37:06.215-04:00I have been suspicious of Berelain for awhile -- t...I have been suspicious of Berelain for awhile -- this is the first anyone else has mentioned it that I've seen. Thanks for making me not think I'm crazy.<br /><br />Her motive is obvious: it takes a deal with the Dark One to keep a tiny place like Mayene free.<br /><br />Her persistence with Perrin even after he was married and made it clear that he wouldn't cheat is what really makes me suspect her. I think she's under orders from someone (perhaps Lanfear, and she hasn't heard?) to stick herself to Perrin. It sounds very much like a Forsaken kind of order to tell the lascivious queen she must bed one of the three ta'veren, thinking no man would be able to resist such charms.<br /><br />Otherwise, you'd think a smart lady like her would know a losing battle, and find a better way to stay on Perrin's good side.Misopogonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07852888144275755045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-17856201721047719302010-07-22T19:56:11.946-04:002010-07-22T19:56:11.946-04:00TWW: If you look here in The Black Ajah article, t...TWW: If you look <a href="http://13depository.blogspot.com/2002/03/black-ajah.html#why" rel="nofollow">here in The Black Ajah</a> article, the strength levels over-represented in the BA are the middling to slightly strong.<br /><br />Anon: Alviarin had no choice, just as she had to give permission for Verin to compile info on BA way back when. I think that again in this situation her hand was forced. The two Red Sitters in the Tower were told to go by the Highest. So was Tarna. Tsutama wanted to send a lot of Reds but was persuaded by Pevara to limit it to a half dozen.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-42648153266813286822010-07-22T17:02:19.053-04:002010-07-22T17:02:19.053-04:00Sorry, I posted this on the wrong thread. Repostin...Sorry, I posted this on the wrong thread. Reposting.<br /><br />Hi, I love your theories, you always gather so much information from so many places to support them! Really impressive.<br /><br />But regarding the red sisters in the Black Tower, I will have to desagree. I think any black sister would have told her superiors (up to Alviarin) of the reds intentions, and I remember Alviarin having great care not to send any black sister to the Black Tower, when Elaida sent her 50 sister force. I would doubt she would allow any one of them to go in this instance as well. Bye!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-1023738017100554542010-07-22T13:00:39.569-04:002010-07-22T13:00:39.569-04:00I remember reading somewhere that the AS to join t...I remember reading somewhere that the AS to join the BA were most often of EITHER very little or very high strength. Either they want to gain power they don't have or bolster whatever power they already have, in the form of political scheming. <br />I'm sorry to say I don't remember where I read that, if it wasn't from the books.TWWnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-31177094714351725022010-07-22T11:51:00.911-04:002010-07-22T11:51:00.911-04:00Most DFs join the shadow to gain power denied to t...Most DFs join the shadow to gain power denied to them in the normal world. Examples of this are for example Sheriam and Shiaine.<br /><br />Many of the AS who join the BA do so because their channeling strenght limits their opportunity to gain power. It's interesting to note that in NS, Cadsuane mentions 2 AS to Moiraine as being the next strongest after Cadsuane dies. Both were part of Tamra's search and both were killed by the BA. This hints that people with a lot of channeling strength are at least less likely to join the shadow. Surely the shadow would want to recruit them, but somehow they never joined.<br /><br />WO society doesn't hold people from positions of power just because they lack channeling strength. WO's can rise in power to match their potential and joining the shadow wouldn't really give them better options. For this reason I find it very unlikely for WO's to join the shadow. Shaido WO's are a different story of course :)<br /><br />Having power in the public world is likely also a reason why DF Sul'dam are rare.<br /><br />The big shifts in power/station might make the Seafolk a breeding ground for the shadow but we haven't seen much of it yet.<br /><br /><br />About Berelain:<br />She delayed Mangin's execution so Rand had to order it, possibly knowing Rand considered him a friend. If she is black, she could have hoped Rand would make an exception which would have undermined his authority just like Sheriam tried to convince Eggy to pardon the two-rivers' novices who hid Nicola's escape. I'm still not convinced she's a DF but if she is, she hasn't been very successful so far.<br /><br />LandroAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-34677740227106808612010-07-22T10:41:02.958-04:002010-07-22T10:41:02.958-04:00Wasn't love, but interest/affection. Thinkig a...Wasn't love, but interest/affection. Thinkig along those lines, you'd have to put Egwene's affection for him as equal as his for her. They were both interested, but neither pursued to any degree.TWWnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-29940201685298698752010-07-22T08:57:52.073-04:002010-07-22T08:57:52.073-04:00TWW - sure there is an example of unrequited love:...TWW - sure there is an example of unrequited love: Galad's love of Egwene. <br /><br />RobAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-9947605758119693022010-07-22T06:48:40.640-04:002010-07-22T06:48:40.640-04:00More to add:
It's true that Min didn't se...More to add:<br /><br />It's true that Min didn't see anything significantly quesionable around Berelain. However, think of what she saw around Sheriam. Silver and blue flashes and a golden light. It seemed innocuous and sounded good even. And it was - for the Light, not for Sheriam. The viewing described Sheriam's execution.<br /><br />Galad, Mr Perfectly Good, having a dodgy woman pursuing him is an interesting image.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-237193429222099682010-07-22T06:43:40.861-04:002010-07-22T06:43:40.861-04:00Thanks for your comments all. There are many inter...Thanks for your comments all. There are many interesting and good suggestions.<br /><br />Since some think my list is too unadventurous, and others too startling, I might have got it about OK. :D<br /><br />Some question the numbers of BA in the various camps. Vein identified 203 of them and her success rate was 95% roughly. So there were about 215 (rounded).<br /><br />Of these, 70 were among the rebels. Sixty of those in the Tower, which was the majority of those there, escaped. Egwene didn't say nearly all escaped. So let's say that the Tower originally held between 70 and 90. 80 + 70 = 150 roughly. That leaves 65 or so unaligned. Therefore a fair percentage of those with Cadsuane are Black, maybe the 'typical' proportion of Darkfriend Aes Sedai of 20-25%.<br /><br />I agree that Egwene's reporting of numbers on the list and escaped and executed leave much to be desired. Sometimes it was quite hard to understand.<br /><br />Masuri told a lot of useful info about Darkhounds. Annoura is definitely questionable. Seonid? She's the one who didn't meet Masema.<br /><br />Berelain falls for Galad. Not the other way around. Min said she'd be 'snubbed up' by some guy in white. And that she had no shame (like we didn't know).<br /><br />Sorilea's been superb at not doing a great deal directly. Apart from participating in forcing Aes Sedai to swear to Rand. <br /><br />It's true Perrin hasn't smelled anything 'wrong' about Berelain. He didn't identify Aram's danger either, nor Galina.<br /><br />Not all Darkfriends are obviously nasty pieces of work: Moria (no hint), Delana for instance.Lindahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14767984732078916662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4833204375789249557.post-9890006595147378642010-07-21T21:24:23.098-04:002010-07-21T21:24:23.098-04:00Check Egwene's last chapter...
Almost no BA we...Check Egwene's last chapter...<br />Almost no BA were captured during the raid. Or very few, at least.<br /><br />And just to clarify, Berelain falls head over heels for a MAN in white, not the other way around. We have no confirmation as to whether Galad will return the feeling, though we have no precedent of unrequited love in WOT.TWWnoreply@blogger.com