Forsaken vs Rand ... how they matched up when they tried

by Dr. Saidin

Some Forsaken have taken the plunge and tried directly to kill Rand. Let’s evaluate how each has done…

In the first place we have Aginor who took his time trying to kill Rand. Perhaps one could forgive him for his arrogance, considering Rand was completely untrained at that stage. Still, if you are going to kill someone, do it – don’t talk about it. Aginor made the classical mistake common to villains i.e. he tortured us with a prolonged account of why he was so formidable and great. This gave Rand time to search for a solution, namely to notice saidin for the first time, which ultimately led to Aginor overdrawing on the Power and dying.

Aginor returned later as Osan’gar and he attempted to kill Rand after following him around for months. Sadly, Osan’gar destroyed a corner of the palace that Rand wasn’t even occupying. It was a near miss, but still incompetent. Later he tried to balefire the Dragon Reborn at the Cleansing and exposed himself to the wrath of the Callandor circle – only to be killed for the second time. Aginor has proven himself to be tactically barren, and highly incompetent in this regard. He admits he was never made for this purpose, but his efforts in this regard are still strikingly brainless for a man of his power.

Ishamael has tried several times to kill Rand. His plan to turn the Dragon to the Shadow has been daft from the beginning. He has no evidence that the Dragon ever served the Shadow, and he risked everything on a whim that it could be done. Furthermore, his efforts made the Shadow seem very unappealing. Instead of bribery and coercion, he used threats and insults to the notoriously proud and stubborn Rand al’Thor. He took part in swordfights using a quarterstaff, and was found to be lacking. He revealed himself to Rand knowing that he was inches from Callandor – the final mistake that cost him his life. Overall, his plot has been weak at best, and his undertaking of it, even worse. He has been severely burned by Rand, and stabbed in the chest twice.

Be’lal tried his luck. His plan was to force Rand to desperately reach for Callandor to save his life, and thus break the warding around the sa’angreal and then kill Rand. It was a good plan, although risky for a few reasons. He knew that Rand could channel, and even in his presence, Rand channeled a sword of fire. He thus believed he could overwhelm Rand and bend him to his will i.e. free the sword. This was arrogance that could have cost him his life. Secondly, he was completely unaware of Ishamael floating above him, ready to descend. It is not unlikely that Ishamael was planning to kill Be’lal if he managed to obtain the sword. Finally, Be’lal noticed Moiraine, and once again instead of killing her, spoke about his intention to kill her. Those few seconds provided her with the time to weave balefire and to kill him. He did lure Rand to Ilian expertly using his friends as bait, but his plan to force the Dragon Reborn to free Callandor was risky, and probably stupid.

Asmodean actually didn’t plan to kill Rand – he merely wanted the Choedan Kal. However, when he did decide to, he made one of the best efforts of all of the Forsaken. He literally threw all he had at Rand, and never hesitated. Every chance he had, he sent death towards Rand, which Rand managed to dodge or survive. From enormous walls of fire to inverted blades of Air, he never held back at all. When he finally got hold of the sa’angreal, he pulled every scrap of saidin he could into himself, and tried to smash Rand out of existence. It was due to back luck that he ultimately lost – Rand’s small angreal and Lanfear’s treachery. His best tactic was to not challenge the Dragon Reborn, but evade him and go for the prize – and perhaps later return. Compared to Sammael, Asmodean didn’t perform any worse in a duel with the Dragon Reborn… and Sammael did pretty well.

Rahvin was indeed killed for his pride, as the Dark One said. I once queried how Rahvin could sit on his throne while Rand and the Aiel attacked him. RJ responded by saying that Rahvin had planned a chessboard-like defense that he expected Rand to fall into. He didn’t count on Rand’s ability to Travel. Rand says that Rahvin had been clever in his attacks and spent only a moment trying to kill him before running off. His trap in TAR was excellent and caught Rand off-guard, but it was a drawn out duel because of the Forsaken’s pride and poor insight. He had been warned by Lanfear in the very same book that several male Forsaken had fallen to Rand, and yet he relied on wardings and Trollocs to finish off the Dragon Reborn, instead of attending to the act himself. When it did spring on him, he had no choice but to flee.

Lanfear lost because of her supreme arrogance that she could draw out Rand’s death into the most painful death imaginable. She made a serious mistake in not killing him instantly, but went for shielding and pain weaves. Although her efforts slowly did attain success, she paid no attention to her surroundings on several occasions, which allowed Moiraine to sneak up on her. She could have fallen prey to an Aiel spear, or a fireball from another channeler due to her fixation on Rand. There was no plot – just an impulsive and emotional reaction to Rand’s ‘transgression’. While it is undeniable that she overwhelmed everybody present in that scene, it was a foolish tactic and it certainly cost her everything.

Sammael probably had the best Forsaken plan regarding Rand. He warded Ilian and took precautions in the event that Rand ever arrived in his city. He then set up the duel on his own terms by allowing Rand to follow him to Shadar Logoth. Whether this was a good idea or not, is debatable. Shadar Logoth hates the Light as much as it does the Shadow, and the city would be as dangerous for him as for Rand. However, Sammael’s ease at targeting Rand implies that he may have warded that city too. It was only due to extreme bad luck i.e. Moridin helping a defeated Rand, and Mashadar creeping up on him silently from behind, that Sammael was killed. Sammael also attacked Rand earlier in the series during the Siege of Cairhien. His attacks were long-distance and opportunistic. He waited for Rand to become exhausted before he initiated the assault. The entire time he eluded Rand. Sammael proved to be unlucky in many respects, but also demonstrated why he was one of the greater generals from the Age of Legends. Of all of the Forsaken, he has made the most direct and hostile attempts to slaughter Rand, from attacking the Stone, the Waste, and the treehouse, and forming a great defense in the event that Rand should arrive. It came down to Mashadar ending his fate, though ultimately he was about to be balefired by Rand if it had not occurred.

Semirhage seems to have some sort of convoluted plan up her sleeve. It’s difficult to rate her due to the potentially complex plot she created to capture Rand, or perhaps her sheer idiocy in this regard. Direct confrontation was not her plan. Either way, it strains credibility that she thought she could leash some of the most powerful channelers in the world alone, and with the help of no more than a few damane. There are too many aspects of this battle that remain unknown. She surely didn’t think that she could neutralize the Dragon Reborn with a small fireball. Even the simplest barrier would have deflected it, and at the same time she couldn’t guess that he suffered from an internal conflict with Lews Therin. Either way, it was a short, useless battle, and she failed utterly no matter what she planned.

Forsaken who have as yet not attempted to challenge Rand include Aran’gar, Demandred, Graendal, Mesaana and Moghedien. While many may have targeted the hill at the Cleansing, we cannot evaluate who did what and how effective it was.

In summary…

1. The Good
- Sammael
- Asmodean
- Rahvin

2. The bad
- Be’lal
- Semirhage

3. The ugly
- Lanfear
- Ishamael
- Aginor/ Osan’gar

The Male Forsaken and their Strength in the Power : A debate

The relative strength in the One Power of the male Forsaken remains a subject of debate even at this late stage of the series. The author has admitted that he knows where they stand relative to one another in strength, but he’s also disappointingly stated that he prefers to keep that aspect of the series vague. There are several reasons for the difficulty in extrapolating the strengths of the male Forsaken…

1. As mentioned above, the author prefers to keep this aspect of the series vague.

2. The author has told us directly that the Forsaken lie frequently to one another and themselves. It is therefore very difficult to decipher their relative strengths and weaknesses when self-delusion and fallacy are a major part of their characters. When Rahvin states that he could overwhelm Graendal or Lanfear, or when Mesaana claims that she matches up well with Semirhage – how much credibility could one place on these statements? According to the author, they would not admit their fallibility in any area.

3. Character interaction is much more than strength in the One Power. Weaker personalities bend to the will of stronger ones, and they extend even beyond the realm of channeling. There are also unique skills that are inherent to each channeler, which may shift the balance of any potential duel. In fact, some of the Forsaken are so skilled in certain areas e.g. Graendal will Compulsion, that they may rely on these skills to overwhelm almost any opponent. While strength is an essential part in at least standing against your opponent, it is important to realize that a quote comparing two channelers may be loaded with more than one factor.

Therefore, any list is admittedly vague, and open to even the most amateur criticism. However, let me start by stating what I believe to be the most likely list of their strengths…

- Ishamael
- Demandred / Aginor
- Sammael
- Rahvin
- Be’lal / Aran’gar
- Asmodean

Ishamael is most assuredly the strongest of all the Forsaken. Of all of the Forsaken, Ishamael’s position is probably the easiest to defend. The two quotes, which introduce his strength, include…

Guide – “… he was assuredly the Dark One’s top captain-general despite the fact that he never held a direct field command… and the most powerful of the Chosen in the One Power, he was equaled by none but Lews Therin Telamon himself.”

TDR (The Hammer) – “… No one knows the strength of the Forsaken, except that Ishamael and Lanfear were the strongest.”

There is no evidence to contest this opinion, and not even the Forsaken have disputed his power, though his sanity is a constant subject of debate. Other evidence which supports his strength in the power include the following...

1. Ishamael has always been held in the highest regard by the Dark One. In ACoS (Mindtrap), he tells Moghedien that his Chosen are always the strongest, and he places particular emphasis on this. During the War of Power, he actively encouraged the Forsaken to destroy one another until the most powerful remained. As the Dark One’s top captain-general in the War, and as the Nae’blis in the third Age, it strains credibility to think that he would choose anyone but the most powerful of his dark servants to lead them.

2. His dark polarity to Lews Therin has been well established. In the War of Power, he battled Lews Therin at the gates of Paaren Disen, arguably one of only a handful of legendary battles during the entire war. During the third age, he is most certainly on a collision course with Rand for the Final Battle.

3. He inspires fear in the other Forsaken, which is relatively uncommon. In WH (with the Choedan Kal) we see that Osan’gar has always been terrified of him. In TDR (Shadows Sleeping) we see that Rahvin and Be’lal become sheepish when he confronts them. There is an element of bias here, because everyone is terrified of a madman who can channel. Many of the Forsaken may believe that he cannot be reasoned with, and even Demandred feels unsettled when he sees how freely Moridin channels the True Power.

Demandred and Aginor probably have similar strength in the One Power.

Demandred was quoted in the Guide as being "almost as strong and almost as skilled as Lews Therin" which leaves very little room for argument. Symbolically he is second to Lews Therin in almost every area, and it stands to reason that he falls just short of him in strength in the Power. As for Aginor...

Guide – “The second most powerful man, known by the Forsaken name Aginor, came close to rivaling Lews Therin and Ishamael in strength.”

EoTW (There is neither beginning nor end) – “Aginor was surprised and angry I held him as long as I did, but fortunately he had no time to spare for me. I am surprised that I held him so long. In the Age of Legends, Aginor was close behind the Kinslayer and Ishamael in power.”

Aginor’s power is actually not in dispute. He is clearly named as second only to Lews Therin and Ishamael in strength. Apart from the specific quotes mentioned above, we have other evidence of his strength…

1. In EoTW (there is neither beginning not end), Moiraine states that only the most powerful channelers in the Age of Legends could have wielded the power of the Eye. By implication, he must possess close to the highest strength in the Power if Moiraine is correct.

2. In ACoS (A Crown of Swords), Rand says that Dashiva holds close to his amount of saidin. Curiously we see in the same chapter that Adley estimates Sammael’s strength to equal Rand’s. This is often seen as evidence that Sammael is stronger than Aginor in strength, but there are several points to be argued here. Firstly, Adley estimated Sammael’s strength by the strength of his attacks, not by the amount of saidin he was holding. There is almost certainly an element of inaccuracy in this. Secondly, we don’t know if Osan’gar has been holding back. If his full strength made him more powerful than Rand in ACoS (due to Rand not at his full potential), it seems likely that he would hold back to prevent trouble for himself.

3. Osan’gar makes a very large gateway in ACoS (Hill of the Golden Dawn). Gateway strength is proportional to strength in the Power, and his gateway is considerably large.

The problem with Aginor is that he has a weak personality. He admits to himself that he is terrified of Ishamael, and always has been. We see in WH (Wonderful News) that Demandred openly mocks him, but he doesn’t counter the challenge, perhaps scared of open conflict with Demandred. Now to illustrate a previous point, Graendal openly mocks Demandred in the same chapter, and we know that she is weaker than him. Therefore, personality plays a large role in these quotes. Aginor, unfortunately, is a weak little man who is easily cowed, but still strong in the Power. While he has no problem boasting about his prowess to an untrained man like Rand in EoTW, he is mocked and jibed by several Forsaken in WH, without a rebuttal.

Sammael is probably weaker than Aginor and Demandred in the Power, and for the sole reason that nothing has been made of his strength according to legend. While Ishamael, Lanfear, Demandred and Aginor have specific quotes surrounding their profound natural strength, there is nothing to suggest such with Sammael. Logically, however, his strength is close to the higher echelons, due to his status as one of the Forsaken always present at the top of the Forsaken hierarchy (there were six others according to RJ). Other points to back up Sammael’s strength include…

1. Adley’s estimation that Sammael is as strong as Rand in ACoS (A crown of swords).

2. Sammael’s ability to duel Rand at the end of ACoS, even if not openly. This makes him at least as strong as Rahvin, whom Rand estimated was a strong as him in FoH.

3. Rahvin’s estimation that he and Sammael could defeat Lanfear if they needed to. This statement is open to all forms of criticism, but it at least means that Rahvin considers Sammael to be a top level channeler. It’s as close to admitting a strength as one would ever see from another Forsaken.

4. Sammael can make a gateway that is not much smaller than Rand’s. (ACoS – Spears).

Sammael is the opposite to Aginor – his strength is amplified by his warrior personality and his aggressive tendencies. Sammael is openly aggressive towards Demandred, Graendal, Lanfear and anyone who challenges him.

Rahvin probably sits slightly below Sammael in strength.

TFoH (Prologue) – “Snatching at saidin, he filled himself with the Power… Linked to saidin as tightly as Rahvin… this close Rahvin could feel it dimly – Sammael eyed him warily… Then he sensed Sammael gathering the Power…”

This statement suggests that Sammael was holding a great deal of saidin when he met with the other three Forsaken – probably as much as Rahvin could hold. Later he senses Sammael drawing further on saidin. We also know from his earlier boast that he could defeat Lanfear that he considers Sammael to be at least as strong as he is.

We also have the following from when Rand duels Rahvin – TFoH (The Threads burn) – “Rahvin was strong, perhaps as strong as Rand, and more knowledgeable, but Rand had the fat-little-man angreal, and Rahvin had none.”

We know that in TSR Rand was about as strong as Asmodean, and in ACoS he was as strong as Sammael and Osan’gar. Rahvin is thus the middle point between these Forsaken. Probably the best evidence for Rahvin’s strength is Rand’s own comparative PoV – since he believes Rahvin to be relatively equal to him in book 5, but after gaining some strength, he was a match for Sammael in book 7.

Be’lal is an area of contention. Initially he was presented as one of the most formidable of all of the Forsaken.

Guide – “… he combined and surpassed the strengths of both Rahvin and Sammael, being both a patient and cunning planner and a capable fighter wiling to do battle with the foe.”

It’s difficult to ignore a statement such as the one above. While it may seem that it merely refers to him being a better planner than Rahvin, and a better fighter than Sammael, it also makes one wonder why Jordan excluded him from the list of the six Forsaken who were always near to the top of the Shadow’s hierarchy during the War of Power (these were Ishamael, Demandred, Sammael, Lanfear, Graendal and Semirhage).

In my opinion, Be’lal was probably one of the weaker male Forsaken in the Power, though mentally superior to many. The best evidence for this comes from Moiraine.

TDR (The Hammer) – “… he was called the Envious, and he forsook the Light because he envied Lews Therin, and that he envied Ishamael and Lanfear, too… Or that he envied the Dragon as well as his companions in the Shadow. That strengthens my belief that he wants Callandor.”

Be’lal seems to be a man who envies the most powerful people in the world – Lews Therin, Ishamael and Lanfear. Moiraine directly links his envious nature to his desire to gain a sa’angreal. Once again, that is a hint that he needs a powerful weapon like Callandor to stand alongside, or defeat, those he envies. There are several problems here. Firstly, we know that even Moridin, Demandred, Sammael, Asmodean and Aginor have all actively expressed a desire to wield an angreal or sa’angreal if they could get it, and it does not denote weakness in the Power. To add to this, his envious nature may be centered on other aspects and not strength in the Power – namely fame, or physical attractiveness. Really, anyone can decide exactly how strong he or she thinks Be’lal is. He may well be as strong as Demandred, and one could back this up merely by citing the quote in the Guide that suggests his superiority to Rahvin and Sammael. Be’lal’s part in the series is the smallest of all the Forsaken’s. We have very little to work with, and while I believe Moiraine’s quote points to a deficiency he is trying to cover with envy and with a sa’angreal, I may be completely wrong.

Balthamel’s strength is rarely discussed, and in the Guide it is vaguely referred to as “quite strong in the Power”. Other vague hints of Balthamel’s strength include…

1. Aran’gar’s ability to duel a circle of two Aes Sedai and an Ash’aman at least indicates that he’s not too much weaker than Demandred, who pretty much did the same. It shows that he has great strength in the Power, but what else is new.

2. In LoC (When Battle Begins), Aran’gar becomes wild with anger when Delana asks why she is afraid of Logain. It seems like an overreaction to a simple question, but Balthamel was known for his horrendous temper. Likewise, this could merely mean she is afraid of detection by Logain, and not his power.

3. Robert Jordan in his Question of the Week said that if Aginor had obtained a power source not detectable by the Dark One i.e. the Eye, he would have killed Balthamel. In the author’s mind, Balthamel is no contest for Aginor, implying a reasonable gap in ability.

Finally, Asmodean, who is possibly the weakest of the male Forsaken.

In TSR (The traps of Rhuidean), Rand and Asmodean draw exactly half of the male Choedan Kal into themselves. Considering a sa’angreal grants amplification relative to your strength in the Power, it implies that they shared equal strength in the Power at this stage of the series. Rand undergoes a strength increase on further occasions after this, which implies that he stands very far above Asmodean. Further evidence of his strength includes…

1. Lanfear’s statement placing him on a parallel with Moghedien – TSR (Traps) – “You fear risk as much as Moghedien, don’t you? You would creep about like the Spider herself. Had I not hauled you out of your hole, you’d still be hiding, and waiting to catch a few scraps.” Either Asmodean is weak and cowardly, or just cowardly – it is difficult to say.

2. TFoH (Prologue) – “But now he has Asmodean, weak ally as he is. And even before Asmodean, four of the Chosen have died confronting him.” Rahvin and the other Forsaken don’t doubt her statement about his cowardly and weak ways, but whether Asmodean is truly the weakest of them is debatable. Lanfear certainly doesn't use him as a hallmark of the greatest obstacles Rand has to face, naming the other Chosen who have fallen. Lanfear may merely be trying to push her own agenda on the other hand.

3. LoC (Prologue) – “Who betrays me shall die the final death. Asmodean, twisted by his weakness, Rahvin dead in his pride.” The Dark One may be referring to Asmodean’s weak personality and the ease with which he turned away from the Shadow, or he may be referring to Asmodean’s weakness in the Power, and how it drove him to seek out the Choedan Kal, which ultimately led to his downfall.

In summary, I’m sure most readers will realize how tenuous the evidence can be. One could easily challenge the majority of the evidence, thus in keeping with RJ’s need to keep it vague. You could easily suggest that Asmodean is one of the strongest of the male Forsaken. Your evidence would be his ability to stand up to Lanfear in the real and the dream world, and his ability to survive among the other Forsaken despite being a coward.

Alas, I’ve done my best to make a reasonable list that can at least defend its position. The rest is up to the readers to make up their own minds.