A Memory of Light Read-through #10: Chapter 7--Into the Thick of It

By Linda

Elayne POV

The chapter title refers to the thick of the Last Battle that they abruptly enter as well as the thick of the trees around the tent. The darkening of the meeting is explained by the rapid growth of a dozen trees, hundreds of feet tall in under five minutes, that Rand achieved—probably by singing, since none of the Asha’man reacted to him channelling. For once, positive shadows, not negative. On his approach to the meeting site, Rand made grass grow and later in the book, Mat tells us how Rand was able to make things grow rapidly.

Most of the channellers panic and reach for the source when Perrin mentions that the trees are like Great Trees in a stedding. But they are not in a stedding. Egwene reminds them all that there is a limit to Rand’s powers—and he can’t create steddings.

Elayne is quick to call a meeting before resistance grows to her being placed above the other monarchs and generals. Bryne volunteers his maps to Elayne, but declines defending Andor with her. Understandably, he has moved on from his position in Andor. After the meeting, he compliments Elayne on how well she ran it, showing her that he has no hard feelings towards her.

The generals’ plans are: to keep Tarwin’s Gap plugged as long as possible, to prevent the Trollocs from spreading out of Kandor and Caemlyn into surrounding regions, and (at Rhuarc’s suggestion) to protect Rand at Shayol Ghul. Elayne won’t let the Aiel make their own dispositions at Shayol Ghul. She overrules Amys, Aviendha and Rhuarc, following Rand’s insistence that there are to be no independent generals.

Agelmar suggests that they attack the Caemlyn Waygate from inside. In fact, Brandon wrote a scene for A Memory of Light where Perrin led forces into the Ways to close the Waygate on that side, and the Ogier showed up to drive the Black Wind off with their song. However, it was cut due to the length of the book and because the scene was a sideline to the Last Battle.

Instead, Bryne suggests a way to lure the Trollocs out of Caemlyn and a position to ambush them. It is decided to hit Caemlyn hard for a quick victory, since the Shadow’s numbers are smallest there, to reduce the battle fronts from four to three.

The generals realise the significance of having four great captains and four battlefronts—it is not a coincidence. Mind you, it is never suggested that the Aiel have a Great Captain, though in earlier books Bruan was hinted to be one:

even Rhuarc considered Bruan a deadly fighter and a devious tactician.

The Fires of Heaven, Rhuidean

While Bryne is in Kandor, Bashere in Andor and Agelmar in Shienar, Ituralde will lead the Aiel and others at Thakan’dar—and he does very well. He remarks that he never thought that he’d fight alongside Aiel.

Ituralde shows symptoms of trauma from the battle for Maradon. Considering his physical and mental state, it is all the more impressive that he held out the longest (or best) against Graendal’s Compulsion.

Perrin warns Elayne against sending someone to the Black Tower for help and to be careful about the Black Tower because something is wrong there. Without thinking, Elayne says she is always careful. Possibly Birgitte would disagree.

Loial’s mother Covril says that she argued the Ogier should open the book of translation and flee, but did not truly believe it was the right thing to do (which could mean that she believed it might be right—or half-believed it was right). I always wondered about Covril’s allegiances…All her actions had relatively innocent explanations, but had potentially dark outcomes.

In this case, she claims that she argued to test her belief and that of other Ogier, and to prove that staying was the best thing to do:

"An argument must have opposition if it is to prove itself, my son," she said. "One who argues truly learns the depth of his commitment through adversity. Did you not learn that trees grow roots most strongly when winds blow through them?"

A Memory of Light, Into the Thick of It

Presumably through the branches and not the roots.

Rand’s growth of Great Trees proves to the Ogier that they should stay and fight the Shadow (for Rand).

Elayne wants Perrin to be quartermaster for the armies but he insists that he must help Rand. Faile volunteers for the job, but Elayne doesn’t trust her. She tries speaking circumspectly about the Horn to Perrin, but he mentions it openly. It had been hidden in a strong room in the Tower and moved just before the Shadow broke into the room.

Perrin points out to Elayne that Faile is a good choice to guard and deliver the horn to Mat because she is not close to Elayne, Egwene or Mat. They will start making supply runs now to establish a pattern, and also because they are needed.


Lan POV

The night is too dark for Trollocs to see. Dusk is a time of strength for them—they can outsee humans then. Also, as Liandrin says:

At dawn the day was born, just as twilight gave birth to night, but at dawn, night died, and at twilight, day. The Dark One's power was rooted in death; he gained power from death, and at those times she thought she could feel his power stirring.

The Great Hunt, The Shadow in Shienar

The Dark One’s power is the True Power which Shadowspawn contain, so they too are strengthened at dusk. Full sun, of course, is too bright for them.

Lan is surprised that a king, Easar of Shienar, bows to him. The Borderlanders will follow Lan as overall leader of these forces. Easar explains:

”You raised the Golden Crane. We were sworn to come to your aid, so we have."

A Memory of Light, Into the Thick of It

Simple and honourable loyalty.

Lan gives a rousing speech to turn the men from despair and self-pity. Easar quotes a poem and smiles at his memories of what makes the poem relevant to him (his wife, probably, and his grief at her death). The poem speaks of someone damaged, but accepting this and continuing on nevertheless. The Malkieri king is damaged—has been from infancy after his family, home, country, and even role were destroyed.

Lan formally accepts the role of leader of the armies at Tarwin’s Gap. He has a dig at Rand when he says he will do his duty:

"What am I?" Lan asked, swinging into the saddle. "Some sheepherder from a forgotten village? I will do my duty.”

A Memory of Light, Into the Thick of It

and declares that he will make any man under him also do his duty. Mind you, it was not that long ago that Lan was reluctant to take on the responsibility for others as part of doing his duty. Rand and Lan have some important similarities. Easar smiles again—at the dig, or at Lan taking on the role he was born and trained to do? Perhaps both. This scene has a strong undercurrent of acceptance.

Lan feels that his army—including the Asha’man—is very united. Lan has five Asha’man, all Borderlanders, one from each nation. He would prefer the Asha’man made gateways, healed or did other useful tasks rather than killed Trollocs.

Towers of Midnight Read-Through #1 : Opening Passage

By Linda

WARNING: CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR TOWERS OF MIDNIGHT

We haven’t heard from the Ogier since Knife of Dreams. As with the Black Tower, we have been deliberately kept in the dark about their activities.

In the extract from his book Loial notes the darkened sky – the absence of the Light. The Shadow is so strong that Wrongness is rampant as the Pattern is being unravelled by the Dark One (Wrongness is a major theme in the series, see my essay on it here). So much so that Treesongs don’t work even in Stedding.

Yet the Stedding are less affected by the Dark One’s touch than other places, since the Ogier dead are outside the Stedding and not apparently within it. They just stand and watch. It’s almost as though they want to say something or want the living Ogier to do something. I’m sure the feeling of being watched by the dead is scaring the Ogier into fleeing. It’s a great way to spread despair, because Ogier are sensitive to the rightness and wrongness of a place.

So, Loial is a postscript to the Stump. He wasn’t allowed to speak even though as a married man he is entitled to. We’ve seen the young given actual power in other groups, if by default, but the Ogier aren’t giving their younger adults any notice, not even granting them their entitlements. Young people have gained the highest responsibility in the human nations because the elders are disregarding the signs of the Shadow’s touch and now we see this is about to happen among the Ogier. Not following their own laws would have been previously unthinkable in Ogier. The incorruptible are now being corrupted – the wrongness of the Shadow has developed to its full extent as the Light’s champion is dark and despairing and corrupted by his link to the Shadow’s champion.

It is interesting that Loial wonders why his mother insisted he be allowed to speak:

At first, I was forbidden, but my mother, Covril, demanded I have my chance. I do not know what sparked her change of heart, as she herself had argued quite decisively for the opposing side.

He expected her to be motivated by personal ambition foremost.

A few reasons why Covril had a change of heart might be:

• motherly love and/or family ambition. For either reason she gave him his 15 minutes of fame (Ogier minutes) because she didn’t believe he’d make any difference to the decision since most were already on her side to open the Book of Translation.


• She wanted to make sure all the forms were followed. Her “victory” would be all the more conclusive then; and, like Mat said, “victory settles a lot of arguments in most men’s heads” (The Fires of Heaven, Before the Arrow) for waverers.


• A third possibility is that she thought his argument, or presentation of it, would only make her own look better in comparison. Perhaps she thought Loial would make such a poor showing that her arguments would be regarded even more favourably, but not so poor that he would shame the family though, or she would not have insisted he do it. Just not in her league. She heard Loial’s extempore speech before in Knife of Dreams and said it was ‘not bad’, which was somewhat patronising. The risk, of course, as the last paragraph hints is that he delivers a better version, and includes some factors that he did not know before, such as the presence on the mainland of Seanchan Ogier.


• Lastly, was Covril ordered to obtain this concession for Loial? Or persuaded to do so by someone without her political clout? The Shadow could do this to sow further chaos and dissension with Ogier neither fighting nor fleeing, but arguing uselessly while the firing line moves closer to them.

Covril might be a Darkfriend or be influenced by a Darkfriend. In the Wotmania/Dragonmount interview in 2002 Jordan was asked if Ogier can be Darkfriends and answered: “Of course”. Considering that the Ogier are contemplating doing something that would greatly aid the Shadow, they are probably being pushed into it by Darkfriends. I have written a theory Covril is under the Shadow’s influence here). An influential and ambitious Speaker would be an obvious target for the Shadow. Covril’s actions here and on at least one earlier occasion when she spoke

from sunrise to sunset in favor of a very unpopular position without a single interruption, and the next day, no one had risen to Speak against her.

- Knife of Dreams, Vows

are divisive.

Loial narrates the passage from the future, so he apparently never does find out why she insisted he be allowed to speak.

As we have seen before, Loial is braver than he thinks. This may be a battle of words, but it’s still a battle, and, Verin’s claim to Rand that battles achieve little notwithstanding, could change history.

Loial feels a stillness when he gathers his resolve. The Stillness is to Ogier what the state of kodi is to Malkieri and the Oneness to Rand. By the Trees and Stillness is what Ogier vow and pray.

The Great Stump debates the opening of the Book of Translation (Knife of Dreams, Vows), but we know little about it beyond the name and that Ogier can use it to leave the world. It appears to be a teleportation device; some sort of artefact made in book shape since Ogier revere books, and this shape is convenient to carry. Translation is meant in the geometric sense of moving things without flipping or rotating. It sounds like a smooth transportation; however the debate on its usage will be anything but.

Now that Tarmon Gai’don is approaching, the mainland Ogier are tempted to bail out, open the Book of Translation and flee. Loial believes that the Ogier should not flee Tarmon Gai’don, but should stay and fight the Shadow alongside the humans. After all, if the Dark One wins Tarmon Gai’don, he will remake the world in his image and there would be no safe worlds to flee to (Knife of Dreams, Vows). Therefore opening the book before Tarmon Gai’don would be futile at best. At worst, by not contributing, the Ogier may ensure the Shadow wins.

If the Ogier leave this world and their stedding, will the Longing overtake them and kill them? Loial deduces the Elders at the Stump must have found suitable answers to this (Knife of Dreams, Vows).

What the mainland Ogier know is:

[they] must leave this world eventually so [they] can come to it when the Wheel turns…That is written.

- Knife of Dreams, Vows

It is not known where this piece of history or prophecy is written. The Seanchan Ogier have had a very different history to the mainland Ogier, being far more actively involved with humans in a military and police role. They may refuse to be transported by the Book of Translation whenever it is opened - if they are told of what the mainland Ogier are contemplating – and they may not have retained any knowledge of the Book’s existence or function.

Will the Book of Translation only move those who are nearby, or those who participate in a ritual, or all Ogier whether they wish to go, or even know about it, or not? Ogier know that they come and go to this world therefore Book of Translation may be linked to this world; and maybe only moves them between the Ogier home world and this one. It probably moves those who are in Stedding when the book is opened. Stedding don’t act like part of this world. They don’t show up in Tel’aran’rhiod, for instance, and are probably part of the Ogier’s home world.

The existence and previous use of the book could also ‘explain’ the few sightings of Ogier in some Ages – they would be a remnant population descended from those who were not present when the Book was opened and so did not leave the world. Our real world myths of reclusive giants represent the remnant Ogier who remain. It could also mean that the Ogier are not native to this world.

I believe that Covril has been influenced by the Shadow and that the Ogier are about to split: one group wanting to flee, the other to fight with the humans. Perhaps they fight each other for control of the Book.

This passage suggests so much but answers so little.

Knife of Dreams Read-through Post #8: New Theory: The Ogier Stumped

By Linda

It’s been a while, but I have posted a new theory, The Ogier Stumped, on the subversion of the Great Stump, to Theory Corner.

When I was working on a title for my theory, I started thinking about the many meanings of the word ‘stump’ and how they are all relevant to the Ogier.

The mundane reference is to the stump of a dead and beloved Great Tree where the Ogier meet. But ‘stump’ means other things too.

It can be the remainder of a body part after the rest has been cut off. And other remnants too. The result of the Great Stump may be that some, perhaps sadly many, Ogier depart using the Book of Translation, leaving a remnant to fight alongside humans at the Last Battle.

It is also a heavy step – stumping along – and reminds us that the Ogier are very large and slow unless pressed. Stump can directly mean ‘leg’ as in ‘stir your stumps and get out of here’. Will the Ogier stir their stumps? And to leave, or to war?

Considering the debates that occur at the Ogier meeting place, it is apt that ‘stump’ is a figurative place of political speech-making, and as a verb, means to make political speeches.

To stump is also to challenge or dare someone to do something and, more suggestively, to nonplus someone. The hot debate at the Stump between Loial and his mother may well result in each side being nonplussed at the others’ arguments. Loial's mother is a great orator and has already heard Loial's arguments (she thinks) and will have planned what to say against them. Loial will bring the challenging news that there are Seanchan Ogier and some are on the mainland, but they have been left out of this debate. Will Covril’s faction dare to take the Book of Translation, open it and leave?

My dictionary tells me that in the US South one can also ‘stump’ one’s toe.

Stumps play a large part in the game of cricket, since it is important for them to be intact. A batsman can be put out if the stumps he is protecting are hit and disarranged by the ball the bowler hurls, or, if the batsman is out of his position, a fieldsman throws. The batsman is also given out if he is ‘stumped’ by the wicketkeeper disarranging the stumps with the ball when the batsman is out of position. And of course, the stumps are removed at the end of each day’s play, hence the phrase ‘to up stumps’ meaning 'to leave’.

The ‘Great Stump’ is a wonderful name choice with many potent layers of meaning.

If the Ogier are out of position when the Last Battle comes, they and the world would be stumped. Shades of the Borderlander armies.

Knife of Dreams Read-through #7: The Ogier and their Great Stumps

By Linda

The last Great Stump was held after Hawkwing’s death, presumably to discuss whether to participate in the War of Hundred Years. From Covril’s and Loial’s exchange:

"And by the War of the Hundred Years we had learned not to get ourselves tangled in human affairs."
"The War of the Hundred Years was a human affair, and none of ours.”

- Knife of Dreams, Vows

the Ogier played a part in that war and at least some Ogier regretted it, perhaps many. The now accepted reclusiveness of Ogier may stem from this.

According to Loial the Great Stumps have a large number of Ogier attendees:

For a moment, he saw the crowds standing all around him, hundreds and hundreds of men and women waiting to hear his words, perhaps several thousand.

- Knife of Dreams, Vows

and oratory is very important.

The current Great Stump at Stedding Shangtai, which has been meeting since before Elder Haman, Speaker Covil and Erith set out to look for Loial (over 6 months), has been debating whether or not to open the Book of Translation and flee now that Tarmon Gai’don is approaching.


Book of Translation

The Book of Translation appears to be a teleportation device which the mainland Ogier have that can take the Ogier to another world.

The Ogier may have departed and returned to the main world in a previous Age, since they certainly expect to again and important events repeat in the cycle of Ages:

[they] must leave this world eventually so [they] can come to it when the Wheel turns…That is written.”

- Knife of Dreams, Vows

It is not known where this piece of history or prophecy is written or the context in which it is expressed.

If the mainland Ogier leave this world and their stedding on which they are so dependent, will the Longing overtake them and kill them? Loial deduces the Elders at the Great Stump must have found suitable answers to this or the Stump would have ended already (Knife of Dreams, Vows).

How does the book work? All who wish to depart probably have to stand near book – perhaps touching each other – when it is opened.

The fact that Ogier have a device which can move them to another world and that their Stedding are not reflected in Tel’aran’rhiod implies they are not native to the main world.


If the Ogier had used the book before in other Ages as Covril implies, then in the immediate period following such a mass exodus very few Ogier would be around, just the remnant population descended from those who were not present when the Book was opened and so did not leave the world. Ogier would rarely be seen and, coupled with their preference for remote habitats, would become legendary. In our world there are similar legendary giant beings that are ‘sighted’ on occasion. These are parallels of the Ogier and are discussed in the Ogier parallels article now posted on the blog.


Gardeners

The Seanchan Ogier did not become dependent on Stedding during the Breaking (TOR Questions of the Week). They are more actively involved with humans in a military and police role and may refuse to be transported by the Book of Translation when they are finally informed of it being opened. Since they have had a very different history to the mainland Ogier post Breaking, they may not even now know about the device.

I expect that the subject of the Gardeners will finally be brought up at the Great Stump onscreen. If all who wish to be transported must be in proximity to the Book when it is opened and the Gardeners are not there, a large part of the Ogier will be left behind. The Gardeners also should have the opportunity to participate in the Great Stump debate since there is only the one opportunity to leave.


Loial

Loial himself believes that the Ogier should not flee Tarmon Gai’don; they should stay and fight the Shadow alongside the humans. After all, if the Dark One wins Tarmon Gai’don, he will kill Time and remake the worlds in his image and there will be no safe worlds to flee to (Knife of Dreams, Vows).

"In the War of the Shadow, we did not huddle in our stedding, hoping no Trollocs or Myrddraal would be driven to enter. We did not open the Book of Translation and flee. We marched alongside the humans and fought the Shadow. In the Trolloc Wars, we neither hid in the stedding nor opened the Book of Translation. We marched with the humans and fought the Shadow. In the darkest years, when hope seemed gone, we fought the Shadow…The War of the Hundred Years was a human affair, and none of ours. The Shadow is our affair. When it is the Shadow that must be fought, our axes have always grown long handles. Perhaps in a year, or five, or ten, we will open the Book of Translation, but if we do it now, we cannot run away with any real hope of safety. Tarmon Gai'don is coming, and on that hangs the fate not only of this world, but of any world we might flee to. When fire threatens the trees, we do not run away and hope that the flames will not follow us. We fight. Now the Shadow is coming like wildfire, and we dare not run from it."

- Knife of Dreams, Vows

Therefore opening the book before Tarmon Gai’don would be futile at best. At worst, by not contributing, the Ogier may ensure the Shadow wins.

As Loial was explaining this, the Pattern illustrated it – with an enormous Shadowspawn attack courtesy of a Forsaken.

Elder Haman agrees with Loial, but thinks the debate at the Great Stump will last a year or two yet. (Of course, we know from the imminence of the Last Battle that it cannot.) Covril thinks she will bring them to a decision in only a month or two.


Covril

Loial’s mother wants the Book of Translation opened as soon as possible. She is a very influential speaker:

She had once spoken from sunrise to sunset in favor of a very unpopular position without a single interruption, and the next day, no one had risen to Speak against her.

- Knife of Dreams, Vows

To say nothing of having considerable stamina.

Having heard Loial’s argument, I suspect she is working on ways to counter it.

So far no main or second tier character has had a close relative exposed as a Darkfriend. It could be that Loial will be one of the select few. Jordan said that Ogier could be Darkfriends:

Q: Why can't Ogier channel the One Power?
RJ: Why can't fish sing? Why can't sparrows do the tango? Why can't I figure my own income tax? I'd really like to know the answer to that last one!
Q: Can they be Darkfriends?
RJ: Of course.

- Wotmania/Dragonmount Interview, 2002

and Covril’s exhortation that the Ogier not contribute to the Last Battle is very suggestive. The Shadow would find their absence very convenient.

As of Knife of Dreams, Vows, the Seanchan Ogier had been on the mainland for over 6 of our weeks. Loial may be the first Ogier to inform the Stump that they need to be included in discussion too.

I’ll be posting a theory on Covril soon to the Theory Corner based on this article.

Ogier

By Linda

Ogier are large, long-lived non-human beings (natural, not constructs) with an empathy for plant life and a talent for working with stone. Some can even make plants grow useful items without damaging themselves (sung wood). They are very sensitive to the atmosphere of a place, so much so that they have a geomantic feel for the land:

“You must shape the vision to the land, not the land to the vision.”

- The Eye of the World, Web of the Pattern

Loial spoke as if he had not heard. “Everything is linked, Rand. Whether it lives or not, whether it thinks or not, everything that is, fits together. The tree does not think, but it is part of the whole, and the whole has a—a feeling.”

- The Great Hunt, Kinslayer

Jordan combined many figures when constructing the Ogier as he revealed at a book signing:

Q: What was your inspiration for the Ogier?

A: It's really impossible to say here. The Ogier came from a dozen different sources, at least.

This essay discusses some of those sources.

First up, the name Ogier is derived from two main sources: Ogier the Dane and ‘ogre’.


Ogier the Dane

Ogier the Dane is the subject of a tale in Legends of Charlemagne, Bulfinch’s Mythology.

He was the son of the first Christian King of Denmark and was blessed by six beautiful ladies at his birth:

“She who appeared eldest took him in her arms, kissed him and laid her hand upon his heart. “I give you,” said she, “to be the bravest warrior of your times.” She delivered the infant to her sister, who said, “I give you abundant opportunities to display your valour.” “Sister,” said the third lady, “you have given him a dangerous boon; I give him that he shall never be vanquished.” The fourth sister added, as she laid her hand upon his eyes and mouth, “I give you the gift of pleasing.” The fifth said, “lest all these gifts serve only to betray, I give you sensibility to return the love you inspire.” Then spoke Morgana, the youngest and handsomest of the group, “Charming creature, I claim you for my own; and I give you not to die till you shall have come to pay me a visit in my isle of Avalon.”

- Legends of Charlemagne, Bulfinch’s Mythology

The reference to Avalon is interesting, since the name Avalon is similar to Tar Valon, a city the Ogier built and consider their finest work. The first three blessings for Ogier the Dane seem most apt for Loial, who has been drawn into battle more than most Ogier, and led them into the Last Battle, but Seanchan Ogier and Age of Legends Ogier have a fearsome reputation as fighters and police.

The Ogier were also reputed to have served among [the Age of Legends’] law enforcement. Although considered a pacific people and extremely slow to anger, some old stories say they fought alongside humans in the Trolloc Wars, and call them implacable enemies.

- The World of Robert Jordan’s The Wheel of Time

Ogier the Dane was seven feet tall and too heavy for any horse but his own. He was educated to the standard of a perfect knight. At age 16, he was sent to France as hostage to King Charlemagne, to whom his father owed homage, and left as such for 15 years. After four years, Ogier was forced to swear fidelity to Charlemagne as his liegeman. He kept his oath, saving Charlemagne in battle by his strength and valour and leading the forces requested by his father from Charlemagne, even though his father had left him a hostage for all those years at Charlemagne’s court. He was a noble character who forgave those who did dreadful wrongs to him.

On the way back from the wars, Ogier was the sole survivor of a shipwreck and was taken to Morgana’s palace at Avalon. Morgana placed a crown of flowers on his head which robbed him of his memory so that he forgot everything except his desire to stay with her. He did so for more than 100 years, aging slowly, until Morgana playfully removed the crown of flowers one day and his memory returned. He then wanted to rejoin to Charlemagne’s court. However, after such a long time, all was changed, even the language. Nevertheless, Ogier went to war again for the Capetian King, Charlemagne’s descendent. After a few years, Morgana magically transported Ogier back to live with her on Avalon, where Ogier also kept company with King Arthur there.

As well as the name Ogier, Jordan derived much of the character of Ogier from Ogier the Dane: the keeping of oaths (even those made under duress), the loyalty, the forgiving nature, great size and strength and very long life. And the magical transportation is a parallel of the Book of Translation which Ogier open to go to other worlds (Knife of Dreams, Vows). It is not known how this transportation occurs, or whether it involves the magical One Power in some way—as Morgana magically transported her beloved Ogier. The Dane then had the dilemma of whether to stay in his refuge with Morgana or return to Charlemagne’s court to do his duty to his liege lord. The Ogier had to choose whether to fight against the Shadow or flee to a place of safety.

As well as the name of a legendary figure, Ogier is also a real-world surname, and in Jordan’s home town of Charleston, South Carolina, there is an Ogier Street named after a prominent local family. Right is a photo I took of the street sign.

The second main source for the name is ‘ogre’.


Ogres

Ogres and trolls are very large humanoid creatures that occur in Northern European folklore. The ogres (related to the Latin Orcus) are a race of fierce and cruel humanoid beings that eat human flesh; they are also shy, cowardly and unintelligent, which makes it easy for men to outwit them. A female ogre is called ogress. Ogres are said to be able to change their shape at will into animals or objects, and they often dwell in marvellous palaces or castles, sometimes underground. In art, ogres are depicted with a big head, abundant hair and beard and a huge, strong body.

The physical descriptions of ogres and Ogier are pretty similar, as are a few aspects of their respective characters, notably the shyness and reluctance to fight. (The negative aspects of ogres were used to develop Trollocs.) Ogier live under mounds in the forests of stedding, like some ogres live underground, and have built marvellous buildings for humans.

In Scandinavian countries, trolls feature in folktales rather than ogres.


Trolls

Trolls are usually depicted as quite ugly gigantic beings (less often as dwarfs), with big noses, long arms, and hairy bodies. They are unintelligent, although the females may be quite cunning. They flinch at noises, because Thor used to fling his hammer at them.

In Scandinavian fairy tales, trolls generally turn to stone if exposed to sunlight. They live in the forest and in mountains and sometimes abduct children to live with them (especially princesses). Occasionally, they even steal a newborn baby, leaving their own offspring, a changeling, in return.


The character of Ogier is the opposite of trolls, being kinder and more intelligent and law-abiding. Their appearance and living places are similar though: large wide noses, big limbs and hairy bodies and forest homes. They also both dislike loud noise. Instead of turning to stone like Trolls, Ogier have great skill in working it.

Besides Ogier, ogres and trolls, many giant humanoid creatures were used to derive Ogier. These will be described in turn, starting with giants.

Giants

Giants are humanoid creatures of prodigious size and strength that appear in the tales of many different races and cultures. They are often stupid or violent and are frequently said to eat humans, especially children; others, however, are intelligent and friendly (Roald Dahl’s The BFG, for instance, or the Grabbist giant of Exmoor folktales).

Robert Jordan’s Ogier are like the intelligent and friendly giants; they are knowledgeable and cultured. Loial bravely defended children against Trollocs.

In Norse mythology, the gods promised a giant the goddess Freyja, the sun and the moon as payment for reconstructing their dwelling (see painting below). They then allowed Loki to trick the giant out of his payment, thus violating their oath. From that moment, all oaths and treaties in the world began to lose validity. This was the beginning of the decline into Ragnarok, the end of the gods. Ogier are also associated with oaths; they cannot go back on their word even if others do so to them. Late in the Third Age, Ogier abandoned their work in the cities of men because they were not being paid.

The great ferocity of Ogier in battle stunned the humans fighting with them and their foes the Trollocs too:

Loial did not stop his song, the call to blood, to death. Let them hear! Let them hear! Swing after swing. Chopping dead wood, that was all this was. Dead, rotting, horrible wood. He and Erith fell into place with Elder Haman, who—with ears laid back—looked utterly fierce. Placid Elder Haman. He felt the rage too…

He sang and fought and roared and killed, hacking at Trollocs with an axe meant for cutting wood, and never flesh. Working with wood was a reverent business. This . . . this was killing weeds. Poisonous weeds. Strangling weeds.

He continued to chop the Trollocs, losing himself in the call to blood, to death. The Trollocs began to fear. He saw terror in their beady eyes, and he loved it. They were used to fighting men, who were smaller than themselves.

Well, let the Trollocs fight someone their own size. They snarled as the Ogier line forced them back. Loial landed blow after blow, shearing through arms, hacking through torsos. He shoved his way between two bear Trollocs, laying about him with his axe, yelling in fury—fury now for what the Trollocs had done to the Ogier. They should be enjoying the peace of the stedding. They should be able to build, sing, and grow.

They could not. Because of these . . . these weeds, they could not! The Ogier were forced to kill. The Trollocs made builders into destroyers. They forced Ogier and humans to be like themselves. The call to blood, to death.

Well, the Shadow would see just how dangerous the Ogier could be. They would fight, and they would kill. And they would do it better than any human, Trolloc or Myrddraal could imagine.

By the fear Loial saw in the Trollocs—by their terrified eyes—they were beginning to understand.

*****

"Light!" Galad exclaimed, falling back from the thick of the fight. "Light!"

The Ogier attack was terrible and glorious. The creatures fought with ears drawn back, eyes wide, broad faces flat as anvils. They seemed to transform, all placidity gone. They cut through ranks of Trollocs, hacking the beasts to the ground. The second row of Ogier, made up mostly of females, sliced up Trollocs with long knives, bringing down any who made it through the first line.

Galad had thought Trollocs fearsome with their twisted mix of human and animal features, but the Ogier disturbed him more. Trollocs were simply horrible . . . but Ogier were gentle, soft-spoken, kindly. Seeing them enraged, bellowing their terrible song and attacking with axes nearly as long as men were tall . . . Light!

- A Memory of Light, A Silence Like Screaming

They are equated with their opposites the Trollocs, with whom they share some real-world sources, especially ogres, trolls and giants.

Other gigantic beings who defended against evil were the oni.


Oni (Japan)

In the earliest legends, oni were huge benevolent creatures that warded off evil and malevolent spirits and punished evil-doers. Oni are the spirits of anger, although "oni" can also be translated as ogre, demon and devil. In some later folktales, they are the bringers of misfortune and bad weather, while in others they are hunters of evildoers, including disobedient children.

The Seanchan Ogier Gardeners are, and some Age of Legends Ogier were, fearsome guards and police, similar in character and size to oni.

Two dozen Ogier Gardeners in the red-and-green made a line to either side of the doorway, great black-tasseled axes upright in front of them and grim eyes watching for any danger even here. They would not die if she [Tuon] did, but they also had asked to be in her guard, and she would rest her life in any of those huge hands without a qualm.

- Winter’s Heart, What A Veil Hides

The stedding of the Ogier ward off evil beings, so that even Darkfriends feel uncomfortable in them:

No Trolloc will enter a stedding unless driven, and even Myrddraal will do so only at the greatest need and with the greatest reluctance. It is said that Darkfriends, if truly dedicated, also feel uncomfortable and unwelcome there.

- Lord of Chaos, Glossary, and The World of Robert Jordan’s The Wheel of Time

Ogier are slower to anger than oni, but just as fearsome once roused and also have the same strong moral sense.

The Ancient Greek giants have parallels to the Ogier’s building and agricultural side rather than their moral side.


Titans, Cyclopes and Gigantes

These are gigantic humanoids in Ancient Greek mythology with some parallels to Ogier.

The Cyclopes were one-eyed giants born to Uranus and Gaia. They moved mountains with their bare hands and became synonyms for strength and power. They helped Cronus overthrow and castrate Uranus, but Cronus then imprisoned them back in Tartarus, where they remained, guarded by Campe, until freed by Zeus. They fashioned lightning bolts for Zeus to use as a weapon and helped him overthrow Cronus and the other Titans, and also created Poseidon's trident, Artemis' bow and arrows, and the helmet that Hades gave to Perseus on his quest to kill Medusa. They were Hephaestus' helpers and are said to have built the fortifications at Tiryns and Mycenae in the Peloponnese. The noises proceeding from the heart of volcanoes were attributed to their operations.

Size, strength, skill in crafting and the ability to work stone on a large scale are what the Cyclopes have in common with Ogier. Dedicated craftsmen, the mainland Ogier are rarely rouse to fight, but use variants of their gardening tools—axes and pruning knives—when they do.

The Titans were also gigantic offspring of Uranus. One Titan with apt parallels with Ogier is Cronus.

Cronus (in Greek mythology, Saturn in Roman mythology), was the leader of the first generation of Titans. He attacked and castrated his father, Uranus, at his mother’s (Gaia’s) request, because Uranus had imprisoned the Cyclopes and the Hecatonchires (one-hundred-armed giants) within her. Uranus’ blood that fell on the earth created the Gigantes.

After dispatching Uranus, Cronus re-imprisoned the Hecatonchires and the Cyclopes along with the newly-created Gigantes. He and Rhea took the throne as King and Queen of the gods. This time was called the Golden Age, as the people of the time had no need for laws or rules; everyone did right, so there was no need. Cronus was worshipped as a corn god, from his association with the Golden Age. He was a god of the harvest, grain, nature, and agriculture.

The Age of Legends, when Ogier were abundant, was a similar Golden Age. There was very little crime or strife and Ogier spent much time in agricultural jobs singing to the crops to make them strong and resistant.

In Greek mythology, the Gigantes were giants who sprang forth from the blood of the castrated Uranus. The Gigantes later attacked the gods of Mt. Olympus, trying to reach them by stacking the two mountain ranges of Thessaly on top of each other. With the help of Heracles though, the Gigantes were defeated.

This myth is reminiscent of a saying on the mainland:

Anger the Ogier, and pull the mountains down on your head.

- The Shadow Rising, Into the Ways

Like the Ogier, the Gigantes are giant beings able to move stone on a large scale.

Giants that personify natural forces were also common in the mythologies of Northern Europe.


Iotnar

In Norse and Anglo-Saxon mythology, the giants (iotnar, singular iotunn or jotun) seem to be a separate race akin to the gods, and often opposed to them. In the apocalyptic battle of Ragnarok, the frost giants will storm Asgard, home of the gods, and defeat the gods in war, bringing about the end of the world. Even though the giants are generally opposed to the gods, they parley and sometimes party or relax with them.

There isn’t much of a parallel here, except that Ogier are a separate race which played a part in Tarmon Gai’don. The jotun represent natural forces, and the Ogier have a strong empathy with and a respect for nature.

The iotnar provided the name for the ents, which have many parallels with Ogier.


Ents

The name ent is derived from iotnar (Old English "eotenas"/"entas"), but the appearance and habits of ents are not. Ents have many similarities with Ogier. Both ents and Ogier are very large and deliberate and dislike haste. Ents defend trees and now live in remnant forests. Ogier groves are largely destroyed and their stedding are in isolated places. Both ents and Ogier are good stone workers. Treebeard describes the ents’ stone-working abilities:

“You do not know, perhaps, how strong we (ents) are…We can split stone like the roots of trees, only quicker, far quicker, if our minds are roused!...We could split Isengard into splinters and crack its walls into rubble.”

- The Lord of the Rings, JR.R. Tolkien

Ogier and ents each speak a different language to the common tongues of their respective worlds, and neither language is much known by other peoples. It was the Elves who taught the ents how to speak, and much of their knowledge. The ents’ love of knowledge has been expanded by Jordan into the Ogiers’ love of books. Hidden beneath the Ogier’s bookishness is the knowledge that a book instructed them on how the travel to this world, and will do the same for the return to their homeworld. Ogier also use a different script (which may be rather ‘Elvish’ in appearance…) and, in fact have some parallels with elves.

One difference between the two races concerns their females. The ents have become separated from the entwives, whereas Ogier women are most emphatically there and have a large say in the running of Ogier families. Another major difference is in appearance: Ogier are closer in appearance to humans, whereas ents are tree-like creatures, having become like the trees that they shepherd.

Another mythological creature with empathy for plants is the dryad.


Dryads

Dryads were a type of nymph, which were a large class of inferior female divinities in Greek mythology. The nymphs were usually associated with natural features or beings; the Dryads or Hamadryads presided over forests and trees and were bonded to a specific tree. Dryads, like all nymphs, were supernaturally long-lived, but if the tree died, the dryad associated with it died as well. For that reason, any mortals who harmed trees without first propitiating the tree-nymphs were punished.

Ogier are bound to the stedding just as Dryads are bound to their tree, and if away for long, they develop an extreme form of homesickness—the Longing. The stedding is the place (stead) of the Ogier and the Great Trees—where they tend the trees. Ogier consider it a crime to feel the Great Trees:

“Cut down a Great Tree?” Loial sounded scandalized, and more than a little angry…“We never cut down one of the Great Trees, not unless it dies, and they almost never do.”

- The Great Hunt, Stedding Tsofu

The Slavic Leshy is another woodland spirit with parallels to the Ogier.


Leshy

The Leshy is a forest spirit of Slavic mythology. He is a playful spirit who enjoys tricking people, though when angered he can be treacherous. While he is seldom seen, his voice can be heard in the forest laughing, whistling, or singing.

This is reminiscent of when Perrin and Mat go to Stedding Tsofu:

More Ogier appeared now, walking among the trees. Most seemed intent on whatever they were about; though all looked at the newcomers, and even gave a friendly nod or a small bow, none stopped or spoke. They had a curious way of moving, in some manner blending a careful deliberateness with an almost childlike carefree joyfulness.

- The Great Hunt,Stedding Tsofu

While their appearance is different to the Ogier,

When the leshy is spotted, he can be easily recognized; for, though he often has the appearance of a man, his eyebrows, eyelashes, and right ear are missing, his head is somewhat pointed, and he lacks a hat and belt. In his native forest, the leshy is as tall as the trees, but, the moment he steps beyond, he shrinks to the size of grass.

- Encyclopaedia Britannica

their habits and habitat are similar—delighting in the forest where they live, and being usually cheerful, although having an implacable anger when roused. The leshy are largely tied to their place as the Ogier are, both walk tall in their dwelling place and wither outside it.

Another reclusive, mythical giant creature is Bigfoot.


Bigfoot or Sasquatch

Bigfoot is a large creature said to inhabit the remote wilderness areas of the US and southwest Canada. Most people believe them to be myths.

Ogier are large creatures living in remote areas. Many people no longer know what they are, or consider Ogier to be myths:

Ogier appearances outside the stedding are so rare that most people no longer believe in them, thinking them a fantasy.

- The World of Robert Jordan’s The Wheel of Time

In the same way, most people in our world believe that gigantic bipeds are a fantasy. Jordan has developed his Ogier to be consistent with this and to ‘explain’ the widespread belief in giant humanoids and the occasional reported sighting.

The next fantastical creature is a quadruped with a few parallels to Ogier.


Leucrota

The leucrota is part horse, lion and stag in appearance and is the result of the imaginary mating of a hyena and a lioness. Moving faster than any other animal, it makes human-like sounds. It is unique in having a mouth that opens back as far as its ears. Ogier are nothing like leucrota in appearance, but they too can run very fast: Loial out-sprinted a horse, once. We take it for granted that Ogier are a non-human race who have no trouble speaking as humans do. Both the leucrota and the Ogier have exceptionally wide mouths:

The grin on Loial's wide mouth really did almost split his huge face in two

- Lord of Chaos, The Mirror of Mists

Parallels to most of the characteristics of the Ogier have been covered. The last remaining feature to be discussed is their ears—a sign of their otherworldliness.


And Their Ears…

The Ogier have pointed (or tufted) ears covered with hair. There are a few woodland mythical creatures with pointed ears: elves, fauns, satyrs, leprechauns and the Greco-Roman nature god Pan. Of these, the elves have the most parallels with Ogier, since elves, like Ogier, are a long-lived race of creatures that live in forests or underground and have magical powers and a strong empathy with the natural world.

The Ways that were grown for the Ogier by the male Aes Sedai they helped are like fairy paths that run in straight lines to important fairy sites. Aes Sedai themselves were derived from fairies—Aes Sidhe. Fairy paths can be dangerous for humans to travel, or even block in any way, just as the originally benign ways provided the Ogier with a safe connection between their steddings, but became very dangerous to all. In some legends, the fairy realms are entered through mirrors. In The Eye of the World, The Dark Along the Ways, as the Waygate opens, Loial described how the ways originally shone like mirrors.

The negative traits of elves and fairies were used to develop the Aelfinn and Eelfinn, while the Ogier received the more positive ones. Ogier are both highly “natural” like nature spirits, but also otherworldly like fairies, to the extent that they came from another world. According to Jordan’s Ogier notes, the fairy-like Aes Sedai lost the knowledge that the Ogier were alien during the Breaking.

Their Human Side

As stone masons who are separate from the general population in havens, Ogier are like Freemasons in their lodges. Robert Jordan was a Freemason, and left touches of masonic symbols in his books (see Freemasonry and the Wheel of Time article). Often important men, masons are rarely identified as such, just as Ogier are physically conspicuous when they leave their stedding but naturally reclusive. In some areas, Ogier are so rarely seen that people have trouble identifying them, and they incite fear to the extent that some have thought these considerate faithful beings Shadowspawn. Likewise, Freemasonry also incite doubt, suspicion and fear. Ogier regard stone-working as an aside, something extra that they do. Founded as a medieval guild, actual stone-working is no longer the purpose of Freemasons. Harriet said that the character that Robert Jordan was most like is Loial.

Chinese Influences

Ogier place names are mainly Chinese in character LINK. In Robert Jordan’s Ogier notes, the Book of Translation was originally called the Book of Changes. The most famous book with this title is the I Ching, a Chinese book on divination, which is consistent with the Chinse place names. Ironically, the stedding in Shara, a land with strong Chinese parallels, are long abandoned according to Robert Jordan’s Ogier notes because no Ogier entered that continent after the Breaking and those who were already in Shara died out.

Decline from the Golden Age

Ogier were far more common and well-known in the utopian Age of Legends than in the Third Age. Like humanity, they have declined in numbers, lifespan, knowledge and technology. This has a parallel in ancient and medieval thought: many historic texts, including the Bible, believed that people were once much larger and stronger than they are now, and had degenerated after a golden age.


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Written by Linda, November 2004 and updated January 2014 and May 2019